Maschinen Tractate - electronic texts?

[Tarsier79]

Bessler used Gravity ad assumably something else. With our understanding of mechanics and physics, we could theoretically substitute gravity out. The important thing is what caused the excess.

[magnagravity]

oh-my-god (Tarsier 79)
You said " with our understanding of mechanics and Physics "

Here it COMES ---------------------------- What causes the excess --------- Where did you learn the words mechanics and Physics

this is the funnies Joke ever - in physics - What Causes the excess - I am rolling on the floor laughing - I mean really -

Sorry - somebody said somewhere something about smarts - What causes the excess - no really - Excess -

I am not even going to go there, it is just too funny - Wow - thank you very - I rest my case - again

din - ma - TOM

[johannesbender]

Thanks you, I looked up Maschinen Tractate and it took me to a list of Clues
One of the statments
said that Bessler worked on many different types of designs using many different type of sources of energy possible
and one of the Clues said that he said it used more than 1 energy in the device.

This is a very interesting find: because People seem to be stuck on the notion that he only use gravity
this is why the question was asked

how many possible energies sources he may have used.

Thank you JUBAT - so what you are saying is if anyone that has something that you do not want to hear they should just view this Public Forum without comment- otherwise the Gangs of attacker will - like in the past with the towns people that bessler got attacked in the same way. So what you are saying here is that there is not difference between this forums people and the past towns people that attacked Bessler doing the same things as I - Interesting concept you got there JUBAT - So is this what Scott is promoting on this forum - I hope he has more morels - being how why start a forum of people that did the same thing to Bessler hoping to find the answer to how the dammed thing worked. Please mr. Bessler we really are not interested in hearing how you're wheel works on this Public Forum - ( we will figure it out for our selves ) Now Get lost - Bessler - good he's gone - now what was we doing?

Sorry for the off topic thing again, Thank you - John - If I were Bessler - I would not talk to the people here. 25 years of nothing is to much.

Bessler created over 139 designs , some using weights and some using air and others using other concepts , none of them worked so he had created many different designs with different principles but none of them was the wheel which worked.

Original MT scans : https://orka.bibliothek.uni-kassel.de/v ... 5/910-911/
Reproduced MT images : (1 to 20) http://www.orffyre.com/mt1-20.html
(21 to 40) http://www.orffyre.com/mt21-40.html
(41 to 60) http://www.orffyre.com/mt41-60.html
(61 to 80) http://www.orffyre.com/mt61-80.html
(81 to 100) http://www.orffyre.com/mt81-100.html
(101 to 120) http://www.orffyre.com/mt101-120.html
(121 to 143) http://www.orffyre.com/mt121-143.html

I made many calculations and constructed many models.
Parts from all over the area were collected for making machines.
When all the parts were ready, I would fit them together with painstaking care, and
when things had reached the point where the wheel should have
revolved freely...well if it refused to do so you can imagine how
frustrated and angry I became! I would complain to no-one, but
would take solace in thinking about other matters. But no true
revolution manifested itself, whatever I did! What's more, funds
were getting low, because all the bits and pieces cost no small
sum! And my poor young assistant - he stood there glumly,
scratching his head after labouring so long in vain. I beavered
away endlessly, and night and day my head was filled with
conjectures. I relished no food; the project was making my head
spin. But I always came back again and undertook new
experiments.
I was "perpetually" devising new ideas in secret, and these I
would boldly incorporate into yet another new wheel. This one
just had to work.....How nicely it stayed put! How much I
regretted the time and, especially, the money I'd put into it alll It
would have been difficult in the face of all this, for anyone to
pluck up the courage to make new efforts. The net result of it all
was sure to be the same as last time. But I doubt if anyone, in
any country, has ever had the patience and diligence I showed in
my obsessive fancy. While other people were being carefree, I'd
be tearing my heart out. Id discover something wonderful, on
which I'd staked everything, only to be heard loudly lamenting, a
few days later, at the thought that the years of work had been
fruitiessly expended. Id be overcome by great sorrow, would go
to my bedroom full of anguish and weep bitterly ....

He however later according to his own words discovered "true mechanical perpetual motion" and claimed that it was driven by weights only .

The internal structure of the wheel is designed in such a way that weights applied in accordance with the laws of Perpetual Motion, work, once a small impressed force has caused the commencement of movement,
to perpetuate the said movement and cause the rotation to continue indefinitely – that is,
as long as the device retains its structural integrity – without the necessity of external assistance for its continuation
– such as the mechanisms which are to be found in other ‘automatics’ – e.g. clockwork, springs or weights that require rewinding.
For this concept, my ‘principle of excess weight’, is NOT just an external appendage, an ‘added-on device’ which is there in order to cause,
through application of its weight, the continuation of the motion (the revolution) so long as the cords or chains, from which it depends,
permit.
NO, these weights are themselves the PM device, the ‘essential constituent parts’ which must of necessity continue to exercise their motive force (derived from the PM principle) indefinitely –
so long as they keep away from the centre of gravity. To this end they are enclosed (page 21) in a structure or framework, and coordinated in such a way that not only are they prevented from attaining their desired equilibrium or ‘point of rest’,
but they must for ever seek it, thereby developing an impressive velocity which is proportional to their mass and to the dimensions of their housing.

(credit :Bessler himself :John Collins :John Collin's translator)

[Tarsier79]

oh-my-god (Tarsier 79)
You said " with our understanding of mechanics and Physics "

Yes I did. Considering your lack of understanding of context of the plain English before your eyes, I wouldn't put much weight into any of your "insights" into Besslers words.

Also, I am not sure why you are so arrogant. I have just as many working devices as you do: ZERO.

[agor95]

Hello Tom

oh-my-god (Tarsier 79)
You said " with our understanding of mechanics and Physics "

How too make friends and influence people? I smile at your attempts.

I have found if you write more too a person telling them off than not talking to them; 'water off a ducks back'.
We could all be more productive.

Rubbing a persons nose in it for their pattern of language is well rude.
However we could talk about another way of talking & thinking on the subject.

For me building from the ground up has been useful. Gaining more insight allow the 'does not fit' to become integrated in future physics.

The 'InfinitySAV' device found does confirm your endeavors have made a difference.
And magnets manufactured with high levels of energy can retrain their flux in a device for 10 years only loosing 1%;
As the running device releasing 10 kw as the magnets degrade.

Some work needs to be done too check how well the company is doing.

A Gang - really people can lack tack individually. Tackles begets tackles.

P.S. When a device's rotation rate increases and we do not know why.
Then it is not excess but lack of knowledge. In a way the exact opposite.

Regards

[eccentrically1]

His principle had to include an external torque to overcome the tiny friction in the 54 day test.
There should be no debate about that given the sims we've seen here and youtube experiments that confirm conservation laws.
If the external torque was manmade, then he was a fraud.
If it was environmental, then he wasn't.
It's that simple.

[Sam Peppiatt]

Scott E.,
Came up with a good quote. A new idea isn't the problem; it's letting go of the old ones. Seams to me like this is the difficulty that you all have, If you will forgive me for saying so----------------Sam

[JUBAT]

You are exactly right Sam. The old ideas are the hindrance to the new ideas that are needed. :)

[johannesbender]

On one side , i think most here like myself are a little hard headed when it comes to giving up on something you feel you should not , i move on from concept to concept , i don't always show them here , but i redefine my goals for new concepts as i go along and fail , the room keeps narrowing , leaving less and less room to wiggle , lately i have been so lost in brainstorming and found myself lacking in thoughts , eventually i found some new idea that fits the goal , it keeps getting harder for me to think of a possible solution per redefined problem .

[agor95]

it keeps getting harder for me to think of a possible solution per redefined problem .

You could try eating mushrooms, turkey tail, lion's mane & morels to name a few; They work like magic.

Lateral Thinking is the mycelium of our subconscious.

:)

[gravitas]

https://orka.bibliothek.uni-kassel.de/v ... pDocAnchor

Thank you, but I actually meant transcribed electronic versions - text files, not images...

I am guessing that this task has not been done...

Nick

[magnagravity]

When in the course in human events is becomes some unknown person that has wish not to present notions of possibilities and get paid for the the notions of possibilities by selling books and items on the notions that people will confuse the possible outcome only to find the payments made were only for maybe events if you buy the next book that will cover the maybe something to do with the next book that comes on on the same subject that really is just a clue made by someone that did not wish his clues to mean it could produce results in the facts of the subject at hand,

I gave credit to John Collins for his ability to sell books that ran for over 25 years and still produce how many working systems?
Good job - John - and I only send you ever 5 drawing - are you that confused ? no I am not looking for friends - you have to care first.

I have never read any of the books by any or the people that were selling a notion of possibilities. I just built a working device from my own developments very much in the same way Bessler did not research other peoples designs on workable energies of Perpetual motion designs. If you do nothing you get nothing for nothing asking people that no nothing you still get nothing for nothing - forum fixtures -

Unlike Bessler I have given the real information to any that wish to research the concepts to make there own versions
once So: name the versions after yourself if you wish, they are your versions and they belong to you.
if you think about it Bessler is a real Ass, What did he do for you, Nothing - yes - nothing. and he love doing it.
No I am not trying to make friends - I don't know - are want to know anyone, no fame has it rewards.
No sales of books that lead nowhere - no false clues - you do not have to pay me a dime, I have my own money, and best of all you get to abuse me all you want
about getting this technology for free. Like bessler the attacker made him popular. I learned from the best.

So: do it - or don't do it - but do it because you want to -- in the week i have been on this forum there was given all the information needed to make your own working Gravity/ magnetic / and the rest forms of energies devices and systems - good luck -
were as 25 years or more has given you notions of possibilities that you have payed for over and over and over and over -------- 8 turn it on it side . again i did not read the BS. books - you did and payed for - somebody has to be the fool - it's human's oops - that make the 1 percent rich. Thanks.

So to all a good night. ( I am to lazy to leave my normal Aka"s ) That - That - That's all up to what you want to do now. happy hobbies.

[agor95]

Hi Tom

You are correct people author books to make money and give them catchy titles to attract purchasers.

Some titles do sit on the line and would cross it except for the use of a '?'

Don't worry friendship is not on offer :)

Well thanks for letting members know about your your pulsed rotating thing.
There are many such devices available that also lack a constant torque output.

[johannesbender]

I will hammer , make an appointment with my brain , saw and build , dont worry i am evolving bit by bit .

[Robinhood46]

Do you reckon the bottom one will work out that a human couldn't even bruise themself with the saw it's been given, it's so blunt?