Besslers prime mover and its enabler.

[Fletcher]

Fletcher I would like to ask you and others on the forum this question.

Lets say that you had a really great week and you managed to find the prime mover for Besslers wheel and actually got a wheel going over unity. Do you think you would be able to patent it in the West? Yes or No only.

Then you decide to start experimenting with cold fusion and amazingly with a unique technique you find that its possible and you are producing lots of heat energy that can only be coming from the atom. Do you think that you would be able to patent it in the West therefore protecting your intellectual property and hard work meaning money in the bank and perhaps the Nobel prize? Yes or No only.

Graham

First off - I don't think its possible to give just a yes or no answer - of course it is, but it is meaningless ..

There used to be umpteen dozen topics on this forum about it years ago - jim_mich was a strong advocate for it, and others, mainly wanting financial independence which is not unreasonable - while many others were like JC for his same reasons ..

Personally I haven't given it any serious thought as it's a bit blue-sky for me atm (now there's an irony), until that Prime Mover is found and its modus operandi totally explainable and understood ..

What I remember of the discussions can be summarized into this IINM ..

The USA has first to patent rights ..

Most of the rest of the western world is first to invent (not first to patent) i.e. must have documented proof that you were the first to invent a unique, fathomable, coherent concept that fully described in cause and effect terms the path to your free-energy/OU/PM technology ..

Most countries afaik, but particularly the USA, require a "working" model demonstration to an examiner of your free-energy/OU/PM technology doing what you say it can do, before they will grant a patent .. i.e. show and tell session .. not just a tell with some pics ..

At the same time most countries have a national security 'get out of/into jail' clause if your invention is deemed to prejudice national security interests etc .. this is to stop wack jobs trying to patent things like weapons of mass destruction or biological weapons etc - well, that the public spin ..

So in short, a mechanical Prime Mover mech that enables an everlasting excess imbalance wheel, or an excess of heat energy as a basis for an thermal engine that required no visible energy input but was not published nuclear knowledge, then I would say as long as you supply a "working prototype" (demonstrable proof) to the examiner legally he'd be hard pressed to turn your patent application down ..

But a wise man might have some insurance up his sleeve to make sure everyone plays nicely and fairly with him ..

[Sam Peppiatt]

Are you sure Fletcher? I thought it was the other way around. Then Obama changed it to patent first, the same as every one else----Sam

[Fletcher]

Not sure Sam .. never looked into it - afaik in other countries outside US anyone can patent - but if you can prove you were first to invent then you have the legal chops ..

I'm sure somebody else has looked into it and can put us straight ..

However Rox's point is about western world countries - everyone knows that a patent just gives you the right to take a prosecution in the courts of the land to defend your patent - you need deep pockets and be young enough to see it thru .. or your partners and heirs will be lumbered with it ..

Especially when models of it appear on Taiwanese shelves a week after you patent it, and on the dark net ..

Personally, if you are going that route partner up with a university or government body, or private investor etc, that has a very real interest in protecting yours and their interests and intellectual property collectively, and the means and ability to do it .. if you must go to war don't get sucked into a woke "proportional like-for-like" response (it never won a street fight) - and don't take a knife to a gun fight - go in with overwhelming force, and time, cost, resources, and collateral damage will be less ..

Or, life is too short, and go for the benevolent benefactor to humanity route -- and feel smug and virtuous for the remainder of your life, and take Oprah's, Time magazines, and the Nobel's calls lol ..

[daxwc]

Fletcher: …and feel smug and virtuous for the remainder of your life

Well that is better than how Bessler left us. If God wanted me to be a billionaire he would have granted me the winning ticket in the Powerball lottery. ;)

[daxwc]

What do Alfred Wegener, Aristarchus, Nicolaus Copernicus, Leonardo da Vinci, Ignaz Semmelweis, and Peter the Great all have in common?

They did not receive full recognition or appreciation for their accomplishments during their lifetimes. The question arises; does it truly matter if one's achievements go unnoticed?

The subjective nature of this inquiry on patents hinges on individual perspectives. Some find fulfillment in the intrinsic value of their work, while others place importance on external validation and the opportunities that recognition might bring. Some simply wish for money to fulfill a dream closely resembling a treasure hunt. Others might be content on just knowing their distant future kin lived a better life because of your strife.

To each their own.

[Fletcher]

Correct dax .. and just solving the intellectual challenge possibly will be reward enough for many ..

Then get it out there wide and hard and let the chips fall where they may - probably get a minder and manager so Elon has to talk to your people before you pick up the phone lol ..

[thx4]

Or, life is too short, and go for the benevolent benefactor to humanity route

The best route to take...

In Europe, patents on impossible machines have not existed for over a century.
Assuming you're disguising the way it works, in France the army has a right of pre-emption, which can last more than ten years...

Fletcher: …and feel smug and virtuous for the remainder of your life

Well that is better than how Bessler left us. If God wanted me to be a billionaire he would have granted me the winning ticket in the Powerball lottery. ;)

I think like you, destiny is very present... (See Spinoza: https://www.google.com/search?q=spinoza ... 7467251370)

We do NOTHING things happen (too long a topic here 🙂 )

I can well imagine a day (soon I hope) when several members declare to universities and the world press that we have rediscovered the Bessler engine. It's obvious that the impact on physics, and on energy, will turn the future of mankind upside down, free energy could bring peace for centuries, that's good enough for me... 🙂
So it's simply unsellable. It's like inventing air, water, etc...
The few millimeters that separate me from a loop, still seem like kilometers to me 🙂

[eccentrically1]

The US is first to file for protection.
It's easier to administer; the patent simply goes to the first inventor to file rather than holding separate hearings for each inventor in such cases ("reduced it to practice" before the competition).
3 types - utility, design and plants ("sports, hybrids, seedlings, mutants, and cultivations, other than plants found in an uncultivated state or that are potatoes or edible tuber propagated plants").
You could get a utility patent but it takes a few years in most cases. And maintenance fees apply for 20 years.
A design patent would be easy to get and might offer better protection since a OB renewable energy wheel would be a one of a kind design, no fees.

[Sam Peppiatt]

For world wide patents check the PCT, (Patent Cooperation Treaty))--------------Sam

[Sam Peppiatt]

thx4,
I think the same thing; am I foot away from success or a million feet from another failure---------Sam

ETA Except for the peace part; we will still find some reason to knock each other over the head.

[daxwc]

This is where your patent will go.

Me: How many patents are seized by the USA government every year and how many are still seized?

Copilot:

In 2021, the U.S. government issued a total of 5,976 patent application secrecy orders1. These secrecy orders prevent the public from accessing certain patent applications. However, it’s important to note that not all patents are seized or kept secret. In fact, as of 2020, there were approximately 3.34 million patents in force in the United States2. So while some patents are restricted due to secrecy orders, the majority remain accessible and contribute to innovation and technological progress.

Interestingly, there are also thousands of secret patents that the U.S. government refuses to make public. As of 2017, there were 5,784 patents that remain hidden from public view3. These undisclosed patents raise curiosity about what groundbreaking inventions might be lurking behind the veil of secrecy!

[daxwc]

. Here is how it will go. You will get a visit when a very important patent becomes classified, the patent holder is typically informed, and they have the option to appeal the secrecy order. They strongly suggest through coercion that patent holder sell their patents to defense contractors if you want to help the country and ever see any money for your efforts. If that doesn’t work within a short while a sudden vacation to Davy Jones’s Locker is taken.

[agor95]

https://www.gaia.com/article/the-myster ... owered-car
https://patents.google.com/patent/US5149407A/en
https://patents.google.com/?assignee=St ... y+A.+Meyer

There are 31 working patents for this dead inventor.

[daxwc]

Do you really believe the governments of the world are that worried about being fair? Do you really believe everything is above board? There is thousands of examples that are not even under the veil of secrecy.

The government of Franklin D Roosevelt seized all gold bullion and coins via Executive Order 6102, forcing citizens to sell at well below market rates. Immediately after the “confiscation”, the government set a new official rate for gold that was much higher as part of the Gold Reserve Act 1934.
https://theconversation.com/how-the-us- ... 30s-138467

If you have an invention that will crash the economy they will intervene. Period.

[Sam Peppiatt]

daxwc,
Right article 35. A way around it is; go to the PCT, patent it in every country possible first, then go back to the US patent office. It would do then little or no good to put a hold on it after it's already been disclosed------------------Sam

ETA It's difficult to know for sure what would happen. tax4 might be on the right track, it may be impossible to stop; by any one------------------Sam