Besslers prime mover and its enabler.

[SHADOW]

Bonjour Graham,
J'ai testé votre simulation sur Algodoo sans le moteur, avec le frottement de l'air et à fond dans l'exécution:
Cela fonctionne!!!!
Il vous reste à sélectionner l'ensemble du système et à supprimer tous les contacts.
Ca démarre tout seul.
Au boulot pour une démonstration Physique!!!!
Il restera à trouver le moyen de ramplacer les ressorts.
J.B

Hi Graham,
I tested your simulation on Algodoo without the engine, with the friction of the air and thoroughly in the execution:
It works!!!
You still have to select the entire system and delete all contacts.
It starts on its own.
Get to work for a Physics!!
It will remain to find the way to crawl the springs.
J.B

[Roxaway59]

Hi Shadow, its unfortunate but some ideas in Algodoo go over unity because the program isn't ideal for gravity wheels.

I use it mainly as a tool for drawing ideas and doing basic simulations.

What I like about this simulation is the way the weights move to the right on the right hand side in a slight jerking motion. You have to look closely at it on a low speed but It behaves differently than the left side.

To me the motion looks more realistic than WM2D which tends to just oscillate more even with damping applied.

When we have doubts about these things the best way is to build a real one to check it out but I believe Algodoo is showing the motion of the mechanism more accurately than WM2D. Having said that it still doesn't mean a real build will work of course.
Graham

[Robinhood46]

I have just had a play with it, and there are some points worth noting, i think.
When you turn gravity off, it still works. Does this mean that the ice skater effect is the important factor?
When i change the mass of the material holding the weights to a lighter material, from 2kg/m² to 0.6kg/m²(from default to wood) it stops working. This is telling me that the weights themselves are not entirely responsible for the effect. Maybe there are some other views as to what this is telling?
I look forward to seeing what WM2D thinks.

[Roxaway59]

Hi Shadows, I just had a look at your modifications and it looks interesting with all the forces showing but difficult for me to read. You are probably more advanced than me at looking at these things. I should point out to people that you have it turning anticlockwise and I have mine turning clockwise.
Graham

[Robinhood46]

I had it running clockwise, and when i turned wind on, it slowed down, stopped and started turning anticlockwise.

[Roxaway59]

Hi Robinhood59, I'm glad you mentioned about gravity because I didn't try turning it off.

What it is saying to me at the moment is that its probably a fault in Algodoo.

I will post a version of it in WM2D so that forum members can have a better look at it and I will look forward to hearing about what that reveals.
Graham

[Roxaway59]

My intention with this is to do a series of simulations based on the Toy Page. This was the first attempt and it caught my attention because it just happened to work in Algodoo. As you can see I'm using the storks bill to a certain degree but the hammer men toys are like that too.
Graham

[Robinhood46]

What it is saying to me at the moment is that its probably a fault in Algodoo.

I think so too but i can't see how it plays up.

[Roxaway59]

Robinhood59 I think we have to be careful about the weight change mainly because it affects the way it oscillates and there is a definite oscillatory function to some of these ideas. You will notice for example how the right hand side weight falls slightly at different times depending on how it is oscillating.
Graham

[Roxaway59]

All these oscillating mechanisms affect one another imparting their energy onto other mechanisms so the harmonic side of things has to be taken into account ideally. Here is one with two crossbars.
Graham

[Roxaway59]

And here is one with four.
Graham

[Roxaway59]

Here is a WM2D version of the simulation. Air resistance off accuracy set fairly high.
Graham

[Fletcher]

Here's what WM predicts Graham .. I removed your double spring + Spring Dampener arrangement so that there was just a Spring Dampener attachment - and put in some Input controls etc .. file attached ..

............



............

[Fletcher]

Forgot to say - gravity is ON and air resistance is OFF - change the accuracy settings up and down, and up the spring dampener k value to 100 and see it graph out differently ..

Ateotd the yellow and blue weights have mass - which is affected by Cf's - which pull on the spring dampeners causing the oscillating imo ..

[Roxaway59]

Thanks Fletcher.

I had a very careful look at the Algodoo simulation with the motor running at very low speed and the springs do something very unnatural just in the same way the ropes do which I usually avoid like the plague.

In future I'm going to stick to only using Algodoo for pictures and very simple simulations and use WM2D for the more serious attempts at a working wheel. That would also be my advice to anyone else because Algodoo just isn't good enough at the moment.
Graham