Zeroing in on Bessler's wheel

[Sam Peppiatt]

Yes jb,
Yes, that's it! That's right. The strap would have to be behind and, fastened to the sprocket, as per your earlier image. The yellow rod hanging down would have a weight at the lower end of it and, would act as a pendulum, to keep the top lever horizontal.

Amazing!! Thanks jb, not sure if it will work but that's the idea of it--------------Sam

[johannesbender]

Okay more like this .

[Sam Peppiatt]

Yea,
That's the way it will be. I'm waiting for the new gears, can't do much until they get here. Again, not sure what will happen.
Thanks for your efforts, jb------------------Sam

[Gegyx]

Bonjour, je ne vois toujours pas le mouvement espéré.
Derrière il y a une sangle qui lie les 2 engrenages bleus et je suppose également un engrenage identique au centre de rotation ?

(J'avais fait l'expérience avec les engrenages liés et cela ne bougeait pas.
Cela a du paraitre plusieurs fois sur le forum aussi, mais je n'en ai toujours pas l'explication compréhensible ? / contre couple... poids rapportés au centre... ?)

Pour ma compréhension, pourriez-vous, montrer, maintenant, le dernier dessin représenté, après juste 1/4 tour de rotation horaire ?
Merci
**
Hello, I still don't see the movement I was hoping for.
Behind there is a strap that connects the 2 blue gears and I also assume an identical gear at the center of rotation?

(I had experimented with linked gears and it wouldn't move.
This must have appeared several times on the forum too, but I still don't have a comprehensible explanation? / against torque... weights reported at the center...?)

For my understanding, could you now show the last drawing represented, after just 1/4 turn of clockwise rotation?
THANKS

[Sam Peppiatt]

Hi Gegyx,
This image isn't complete. It has to be super imposed onto the image shown on page 115. You have to combine these two drawings to get the full picture. In other words the 'strap' is fixed to the sprocket on page 115.
The idea is; as the wheel turns the lever remains horizontal at all times to keep the wheel continuously OOB. Or at least that's what's supposed to happen--------------------Sam

ETA No, I can't turn it, sorry. I should add, on page 115 the ring and rollers go away, the blue rod replaces the green one and the center sprocket is stationary. Clear as mud, right?

[Gegyx]

Merci,
donc on est toujours dans l’équilibre de Roberval avec des engrenages
https://pareshsangani.tripod.com/new_page_1.htm
et tu tentes de trouver une clé pour leurrer le mobile ,
(peut être que dans une demie rotation)
**
Thanks,
so we are still in the Roberval equilibrium with gears
https://pareshsangani.tripod.com/new_page_1.htm
and you try to find a key to deceive the mobile,
(maybe only in half a rotation)

[Sam Peppiatt]

Gegyx, & @,
Hi Gegyx yes, trying to fool it / escape the Roberval curse! I think, as shown, the lever will still be locked to the plate and won't work; and would be balanced. However, it does show how a pendulum can reset the weighted lever. I.E., how to do the resetting. Seams like those forces should all be balanced.

I think it needs one more trick. I propose segments of the top gear would have teeth missing. The idea is to have the best of both worlds. Part of the time it would be resetting the lever,(it would need a locking bearing), then the gear would release, the lever would drive the wheel for say 90 degrees, then the gear teeth would grab again, and do some more resetting and so on and so on.

Maybe 90 0n 90 off or some such arrangement. Mainly; the pendulum would do the work of resetting the levers.

What say yee--------------------Sam

[Sam Peppiatt]

I thought that was a good idea but, no matter. Here's another idea, maybe you will like it better. The "Roberval Principle"; It can lift, hold up heavy weights but can't turn the wheel, right?

What if it was used in the opposite way? It could lift weights, that once they were lifted, could fall back down to drive the wheel. Since it is well balanced, the weights could be lifted free of charge, at no cost.

Maybe that's Bessler's principle------------------Sam

[johannesbender]

Sam i myself determined long ago that the RB side effect of the position of the mass not being important such that the Potential Energy remains the same irrespective of its position along the "pan" would be beneficial for offsetting a mass at a distance to try and make up for distance somewhere like lifting or whatever , however i learned the hard way that the principle that made it work (to keep the total PE lost unchanged ) in the first place is not suited directly for the orientation changed along a rotation unless it could adapt too , but perhaps you know better or see something else that i or we could not.

[Sam Peppiatt]

jb, No I don't know of a way but, what if there was a way? Some how. Like the image you made; if the wheel turns CCW it lifts the weights up to the top, then the weights would fall off, turn the wheel, then be picked back up again to be lifted again.

The idea is, It would have the unique ability to do the lifting.

I know, I must be crazy------------------Sam

[johannesbender]

This was part of how i thought i could do it in the "cutting corners" topic , let the arm drop a weight ahead or behind or on top of its current pivot location to "skip" but yeah perhaps you could manage such a way i don't know .

[Sam Peppiatt]

Looks like, 'curvilinear translating motion' is the engine, (prime mover), that lifts the weights, these weights then drive the wheel, best I can tell---------------Sam

[Sam Peppiatt]

Some basic ideas,
The best way to drive a wheel, is to have a long weighted lever locked to the wheel going down on the down side, for about 90 degrees of rotation. And, then the very same thing, going up on the up side of the wheel. I.E., It would lock to the wheel going up as well. Also, it would rotate / lift upward for 90 degrees across the bottom and top of the wheel,(reset). Always 90 up 90 down.

To the lifting. A new idea is, to incorporate the 'Roberval Balanced Effect', for lifting / rotating the levers back up. I'm not sure if that will work. At least that's the theory of it. If it did work it would lead a long way to becoming a runner. The idea is; it would switch back and forth between the two modes, lifting and lowering the weights.

Last but not least; the difference between rotating and translating motion is the engine that drives all of the parts------------------Sam

[SHADOW]

Bonjour Sam,
Cette idée est primordiale, je n'ai pas encore trouvé la solution pour la réaliser, j'y travaille cars j'en ai besoin pour différente conceptions.
L'inconvénient constaté avec un lest embarqué, est qu'il oscille et compense négativement le balourd créé pour la rotation de la roue!

Hi Sam,
This idea is essential, I have not yet found the solution to realize it, I work there because I need it for different designs.
The disadvantage observed with an onboard ballast, is that it oscillates and compensates negatively the unbalance created for the rotation of the wheel!

[Sam Peppiatt]

Hi SHADOW,
Yes, not sure if I have it right either. It's a two fold problem; weights going down and weights coming up / lifting / resetting. I've settled on the weighted lever, with it's locking bearing, resetting twice per revolution, as the best way to drive the wheel. With the resetting occurring at the top and bottom of the wheel. I really think this is the best way to do it; it isn't some bull shit theory. It is a proven fact. A guy,( I think it was Crazy Dave), dropped one lever one time and the wheel made 27 revolutions! Unless you know of a better way.

On to the lifting, which is the worst part and, the most difficult. I have already explained it in great detail, however I get the feeling that no one has a f'en clue what I'm talking about. No body ever says any thing so I really don't know. In operation it would be similar to a gravity trip hammer, lifting the weight, then dropping it, driving the wheel. The hammer then, if you want to call it that, is lifted by a gear(s), the movement of which it obtained from the difference in the motion created by, or between, the rotation of the wheel and, the translating motion of the sprockets.

Any way, that's the idea of it, fweiw------------Sam