Bessler's secret (probably)

[SHADOW]

Sous Algodoo,
le chariot avance vers la droite selon les condditions suivantes:
La poutre du haut est retenue par un pivot, elle a un angle qui vari suivant l'avancement du chariot.
La roue du haut roule sous le poutre, elle est en contact uniquement avec le galet de friction bas à droite. (roue excentrée sur le bati du chariot)
l'ensemble chariot se déplace par l'intermédiaire de pignons couplés sur les galets de frictions et une crémaillère fixée au sol.

Under Algodoo,
the trolley moves to the right according to the following conditions:
The top beam is retained by a pivot, it has an angle that varies according to the progress of the trolley.
The top wheel rolls under the beam, it is in contact only with the low friction roller on the right. (wheel offset on the base of the trolley)
The trolley assembly moves via sprockets coupled to the friction rollers and a rack attached to the floor.

[Tarsier79]

Hi Fletcher thanks for doing the Sim work. But as I said before multiple times. The top beam must remain FIXED or else there indeed is no extra energy.

When it's fixed and the cart is given a small initial push by "gods hand" the top wheel MUST slip on it and the slip frictional force from that STATIONARY beam now acts to propel and accelerate the cart forward. So for the beam, force over distance is 0 because it remains stationary (from Earth's perspective) yet it "pushes" the cart forward continuously. This happens because of the unique nature of slip frictional force and the fact the earth which the beam is fixed to is massive and "immovable".

I don't see how this would work.. If the beam didn't move, there is no differential energy to drive the cart in the first place. I have other thoughts on the slip wheel, but nothing positive, even if the slip wheel is geared so it is more powerful than the bottom wheels...

[broli]

I have a saying. There is no such thing as a bad student only a bad teacher. And yes this teacher has failed once again.

However the universe gives us infinite chances to try again until we succeed. So let this foolish teacher try again. I arguably forgot to talk about the equally important part, velocity and relative velocities as I always go too fast :).

So here goes a second attempt. I added its own section as to not clutter the drawing and amended a previous slippage (oh the irony) of the previous diagram where indeed it would not move forward. Lets see if this is another slip up or one that will get minds rolling. But dont worry I will be here and keep trying until things start to roll, nothing is going to the grave with me :)

To make sense of the force/torque diagram, just follow the numbers, they will guide you throughout the system. For the velocity diagram its basic addition and subtraction. One multiplies and divides and the other adds and subtracts :). Hey look it looks like a Hydrogen atom, must be coincidence 🤷.

[johannesbender]

My comments were and are just in general concerning the video of Veritasium .

I think where some major differences arise in the real world and a sim which needs to be taken in to consideration are as follow , in the real world i think the build of such a cart which relies on friction between the surfaces of the "wheels" to rotate each other , works because of compression forces between the contact surfaces which keeps them tight in contact, and a certain degree of surface deformations of the materials which produces larges contact surface .

In this image i tried showing this , in the sim world the large wheel would just sit in its position riding on top of the smaller wheel inners because of the rigid contact collision and the surfaces would also not deform too , however in the real world i believe the large wheel was presses downwards a bit and then the axle were pressed in position where the compression force would be maintained and there would also be a slight deformation between the surfaces in contact which would assist in force transmission (think car tire contact area on road surface) .

Here is a demonstration of a compression force with 2 actuators pulling the contact surfaces together , although springs should work too , also i found an angle instead of horizontal movement helps to push (as seen in the video).



I also think though that the best alternative mechanical version to imagine or think of what's going on in Veritasium's video would be rack and pinions and gearing.

[Furcurequs]

I suspect Veritasium was familiar with this short video from 15 years ago. It's where I first saw this.

"Under the ruler faster than the ruler"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-trDF8Yldc

[johannesbender]

This video mentions the cart going faster than the wind experiment
https://youtu.be/9Yt4zxYuPzI

[daxwc]

I like your last video JB. And although you can't feel it the ground is always moving. Need to get the ruler into a different frame of reference and loop itself therefore drawing energy off earth's rotation.

[broli]

Can anyone provide me a link in PM for wm2d, a trial should do. Thank you.

[broli]

If you dont succeed as a bad teacher you keep trying perhaps some day your students will have a breakthrough. Attached is an improved version with an algebraic algorithm to help out.

[Tarsier79]

For me, the DWFTTW and the cart moving faster than the ruler are a more complicated analogue of the storks bill. The storks bill is just a complicated lever. You fix one end of the lever, push on the middle and the other end goes further.

[Fletcher]

Right Tarsier .. the Work Done f x d is greater than the KE gained by the SB, regardless of the velocity of the final segment n.b. equal in a perfect no friction environment .. in the case of the DWFTTW cart ultimately its final velocity is dependent on its aerodynamic drag losses ( minimized ) with a much smaller contribution from the usual mechanical frictions robbing it of energy ..

In Broli's hypothesis iinm the cart ( with cogs ) is imagined to run between the level immovable ground and an upper parallel surface - he suggests that these could be simple rack and pinion arrangements above and below - and once the cart is given a push start that slippage in the gear meshing between cart and parallel surfaces causes the cart to accelerate until aerodynamic drag forces and mechanical frictions find its upper velocity limit i.e. extra energy, as defined by him, is given to the cart from a free source, that being gearing slippage forces, which are well known about in industrial context ..

[broli]

Right Tarsier .. the Work Done f x d is greater than the KE gained by the SB, regardless of the velocity of the final segment n.b. equal in a perfect no friction environment .. in the case of the DWFTTW cart ultimately its final velocity is dependent on its aerodynamic drag losses ( minimized ) with a much smaller contribution from the usual mechanical frictions robbing it of energy ..

In Broli's hypothesis iinm the cart ( with cogs ) is imagined to run between the level immovable ground and an upper parallel surface - he suggests that these could be simple rack and pinion arrangements above and below - and once the cart is given a push start that slippage in the gear meshing between cart and parallel surfaces causes the cart to accelerate until aerodynamic drag forces and mechanical frictions find its upper velocity limit i.e. extra energy, as defined by him, is given to the cart from a free source, that being gearing slippage forces, which are well known about in industrial context ..

Hi Fletcher, yes and no. Not sure why people are missing the point that I am trying to grab attention to. The bottom track could be a rack and pinion indeed yes. BUT, again, the top is NOT, here the wheels must SLIP and slide, in fact the more slip the better. This slip force only occurs if the top rim is moving backwards FASTER than the relative velocity of the top beam. This is the crucial part for slip.

On the ground beam you have negligible Roll friction and top beam Slide friction. The interplay of both AND the freely chosen radi is what creates, not a linear lever as Tarsier mentions, but something which has been overlooked for long in "free energy" devices...the ROTATIONAL lever.

Unlike the linear lever, the rotational lever translates not force over distance but force over velocity.By using rolling and sliding friction.

A Capstan winch is a good example of this principle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNNkNc7mFJ4

Again and again I will repeat, as people seem to keep missing this, the top wheel must not roll but SLIP and SLIDE on the top, the more the better as indicated by the labels in the diagram I posted last. When it slips that is when the whole cart can move, otherwise it would just lock up. You should have everything now. This will be my last post explaining the theory the next one will be of a running example.

[agor95]

Hello broli

I have been studying some material that requires acceptance of rules that mean nothing. However they lead to something profound.

The rule that the top wheel has less friction over the combined friction of the lower wheels is possible.

In a way the contact differences in a vandergraph generator is a rule that leads to shocking results.

Regards

[broli]

Hi agor,

Slip friction is not less friction it's In fact more friction!

I highly recommend people start at the basics and study the force of friction the force which is the basis of all forces a force quickly glossed over in classes.

Here's a helping hand. Sliding friction is defined by the relative velocity a surface has compared to the another one it's sliding on. Roll friction is really sliding friction but reduced to almost nothing due to the nature of a circle and a line coming together at only one single point. I hope that helps now.

We shouldn't skip the basics or else we we miss profound rules of nature 😊

[Sam Peppiatt]

You say more friction is better? Wouldn't that cause less slipping? I'm thinking more Bull Shit would cause more slipping.

Sorry Broli; I think you are out of your mind-------------Sam