Were the pendulums real ?

[johannesbender]

I have taken some time looking at some of the pendulums on some of the illustrations of the wheel , and i have come to the personal conclusion that it is plausible they were either real by build or design .

Heres some of the variables that i drew my conclusion from :

when i looked at the pendulums mechanical linkages , its logical that the rod linkage which links the cranks and the pendulums together , must due to constraint through its entirety of motion , always remain the same maximum length .

Such a linkage might perhaps be able to bend during a push if the material permitted it , but cannot however simply become longer during a pull unless it was like an elastic band , (i believe its safe to assume that it was not an elastic band ).

During the rotation of the crank the rod will be pushed and pulled which will rock the pendulum , but i noticed the rod cannot be placed at any random location on the crank and pendulum .

The rod's offset on the pendulum on one side , makes the distance of the crank to the pendulum connection rod , different from one side of the crank to other side of the crank through a symmetrical rotation , which causes the pendulum to start and stop at different angles and subsequently different heights .

So when i looked at the drawings , i found the same difference in start and stop heights , however the differences in start and stop pendulum angles/heights were imo so negligible that it convinces me the pendulums and cranks and rod linkage between them , their lengths and positions and angles , etc etc , were imo really designed (mathematically/mechanically) , because if they weren't then the height/angle difference of the start and stop would perhaps have been much greater in error if they weren't the same placements angles lengths and linkage connection points.

In this example drawing , the pendulum would rock/swing from side A to side B , and while the rod linkage between the crank and the pendulum must remain at the same length , while also having the pendulum reach its starting and ending positions on the crank through the rod linkage on the crank at the top maximum radius and bottom maximum radius of the crank , as drawn , cannot happen if you just randomly draw them in without mathematically/mechanically designing them for real , to start and end more or less at the same angle/heights.

Here is a closer look showing a small height/angle difference created from the center vertical line, the difference was kept to a bare minimum which leads me to believe there was actual math/mechanical design behind them.

In this drawing i made side A and side B start and end at the same angle/heights from the center vertical line , but as will be seen on the next drawing , the actual start and end angles/heights would be slightly different when the rod would run along the crank radius , but again this difference is kept at a minimum due to the locations and lengths and angles on the illustrations , which must be due to real mathematical or perhaps real mechanical design.

If you do not design the linkage to the crank and the pendulum correct , the difference for start and end angles and consequently height , for a full swing could possibly be much larger in error .

ETA: A clarification , by saying "If you do not design the linkage to the crank and the pendulum correct , the difference for start and end angles and consequently height , for a full swing could possibly be much larger in error ." :
I mean to say , at the start of a swing the height could be different from the height at the end of a swing ,that being higher or lower than the other side of the period , which is unwanted for a swing driven by a rotating crank .

[eccentrically1]

Here’s the animation stewart posted

file.php.gif (86.45 KiB) Viewed 2696 times

[johannesbender]

Here’s the animation stewart posted file.php.gif

For example marking the animation you provided:

[eccentrically1]

EDIT: I thought the attached animation might be of interest to show the range of motion, which I calculated to be about 11.5 degrees to the left and 17.5 degrees to the right. Click the image to see it properly, as it doesn't display correctly in the thumbnail view image.

If the connecting rod was attached to an extension of the brace piece and not the top bar, then the range of motion would decrease to the left and increase to the right.

[johannesbender]

EDIT: I thought the attached animation might be of interest to show the range of motion, which I calculated to be about 11.5 degrees to the left and 17.5 degrees to the right. Click the image to see it properly, as it doesn't display correctly in the thumbnail view image.

If the connecting rod was attached to an extension of the brace piece and not the top bar, then the range of motion would decrease to the left and increase to the right.

Exactly , and this margin of difference in the real illustrations being almost negligible , due to the exact design of where the rod connects etc ,leads me to conclude they were really designed .

[eccentrically1]

I agree they were real, and he probably tried them out in his own experiments. Given that they weren’t used in the demonstrations or the long test seems to indicate that he found they weren’t needed.

[Roxaway59]

Its a bit of a guess on my part but I think the curved piece may be a short spring.

Graham

[andyblues]

i would equally suggest that most of his designs he thought were close to the mark he spent a lot of time drawing up very accurately as do i when i feel close

[eccentrically1]

The curved piece is the end of the iron pivots.

10. The cranks themselves, or pivots, screwed into the axle,

[SHADOW]

Type d'assemblage en meunerie!

Type of assembly in milling!

[SHADOW]

Observation de similitude avec le concept de Sam:
La liaison entre les barres du système à rouleaux rencontre le même problème, elle doit être calculée avec précision car il faut une manivelle ou un embiellage pour que cela fonctionne.

Observation of similarity to Sam’s concept:
The connection between the bars of the roller system has the same problem, it must be calculated accurately because it requires a crank or a crank for it to work.

[SHADOW]

Je pense que Bessler afin de revendiquer la paternité de son invention, il a placé dans ses publications son principe en premier plan, de sorte que l'on n'y prete pas plus d'attention que pour un mécanisme sans utilité!
Spéculation:
Notez que le mécanisme exposé est incomplet pour faire tourner la roue, il est juste là pour marquer la facon de donner la prédominance d'un coté ou de l'autre aux masses sur la barre horizontale.
Les deux pendules sont nécessaires pour avoir un mouvement régulier sinon ily a des accoups aux points morts.

I think that Bessler in order to claim the authorship of his invention, he placed in his publications his principle in the foreground, so that no more attention is paid to it than for a mechanism without utility!
Speculation:
Note that the exposed mechanism is incomplete to turn the wheel, it is just there to mark the way to give the predominance on one side or the other to the masses on the horizontal bar.
The two pendulums are necessary to have a regular movement otherwise there are armrests at dead points.

[johannesbender]

Full scale .dxf files to import in to sims , (zipped file).
one version has reproduced cranks , the other simplified cranks .

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ETA: files in zip were updated
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I used this as a source , don't know if its correct or not ...

[spinner361]

Nothing is what it seems to be.

[Tarsier79]

So what is the natural frequency of these particular pendulums, best guess of course?