Besslers prime mover and its enabler.

[johannesbender]

There is no difference in dropping a feather inside and outside of your house if the air is equally still , the object has to travel through air .
But i would think there are many other factors to consider if we were to imagine a real wheel moving weights about , every action has an equal and opposite reaction comes to mind , and imagine the time it would take moving masses around , there are many things i think that would keep speed down.

I haven't even seen 1rpm in action yet , cant even imagine 50 haha.

[agor95]

Hello Roxaway59

There is obviously a big difference between 286 RPM and 50 RPM.

It's best to work from what we know than too speculate on what we don't know.

Therefore How long does an object take to drop 12 feet (aprox. 4 metres)?

This is the time for the arc path to do a quarter turn.

[Roxaway59]

There is no difference in dropping a feather inside and outside of your house if the air is equally still , the object has to travel through air .

That's one point that I am making the air inside Besslers wheel could not have remained still. To a certain degree it had to move around with the wheel.

But i would think there are many other factors to consider if we were to imagine a real wheel moving weights about , every action has an equal and opposite reaction comes to mind , and imagine the time it would take moving masses around , there are many things i think that would keep speed down.

That's basically what I'm talking about I am saying it was other things slowing it down and personally I think it was the CoG shifting.

Graham

[Roxaway59]

agor95

It's best to work from what we know than too speculate on what we don't know.

We only have a few facts to go on. After that we have to start theorizing and extrapolating.

The good news is that we don't really have many avenues of extrapolation in my opinion. So if we work each one we should find the answer.

Graham

[agor95]

Hello Roxaway59

The good news is that we don't really have many avenues of extrapolation in my opinion. So if we work each one we should find the answer.

We can agree to that principle.

There are reasons why a device does not run at the maximum speed.
It is best to work on the significant ones first.

UPDATE Just gave ChatGPT the task and the RPM is 16.67 the drop of 4 metres is 0.90 seconds. So what is the RPM for a 0.90 second quarter turn.

Regards

[Roxaway59]

agor95
There are reasons why a device does not run at the maximum speed.
It is best to work on the significant ones first.

Yes I agree.

When I do my fourth block diagram I will be extrapolating BUT it does not have to be the only one.

What's important is to build up a coherent picture of the way Besslers machines behaved and then ultimately their mechanical make up.

Along the way we need to ask questions like - what are good examples of mechanical positive feedback?

Graham

[agor95]

Hello Roxaway59

If you ponder my updated post then you will see an RPM of 16.67 is not the speed of Besslers wheel.

Therefore the weights would drop slower than the frame that holds them in place.

Regards

[Roxaway59]

Is this from standstill or from already in free fall?

Graham

[johannesbender]

There is no difference in dropping a feather inside and outside of your house if the air is equally still , the object has to travel through air .

That's one point that I am making the air inside Besslers wheel could not have remained still. To a certain degree it had to move around with the wheel.

But i would think there are many other factors to consider if we were to imagine a real wheel moving weights about , every action has an equal and opposite reaction comes to mind , and imagine the time it would take moving masses around , there are many things i think that would keep speed down.

That's basically what I'm talking about I am saying it was other things slowing it down and personally I think it was the CoG shifting.

Graham

Yeah i agree with that too , there were other top influences on speed , i cant help thinking does speed really matter that much , and i am reminded of wagner saying that he cant see a reason why his design should go as fast as besslers , and bessler remarking back to wagner that if god permits he would make it slower and have more power .

I dont know but it sounds like making it slower and maintining power would not be as easy as it sounds.

[Roxaway59]

People have mentioned ChatGPT before but so far I haven't used it and I don't know anything about it. I'm guessing though that there isn't going to be any easy answers to the Bessler problem directly.

Most of these advanced systems will be heavily controlled by the elite so caution is needed.

Graham

[Roxaway59]

jb wrote
Yeah i agree with that too , there were other top influences on speed , i cant help thinking does speed really matter that much , and i am reminded of wagner saying that he cant see a reason why his design should go as fast as besslers , and bessler remarking back to wagner that if god permits he would make it slower and have more power .

I dont know but it sounds like making it slower and maintining power would not be as easy as it sounds.

The only way I can think to make it slower but maintain power is to increase the kinetic energy of the weights.

This was one of the reasons why I started thinking about the weights spiraling around.

There is an advantage in giving the weights kinetic energy. Under certain circumstances they become easier to lift.

Graham

[Roxaway59]

From Wikipedia

Hysteresis

In the real world, positive feedback loops typically do not cause ever-increasing growth, but are modified by limiting effects of some sort. According to Donella Meadows:
"Positive feedback loops are sources of growth, explosion, erosion, and collapse in systems. A system with an unchecked positive loop ultimately will destroy itself. That's why there are so few of them. Usually a negative loop will kick in sooner or later."[10]
Hysteresis, in which the starting point affects where the system ends up, can be generated by positive feedback. When the gain of the feedback loop is above 1, then the output moves away from the input: if it is above the input, then it moves towards the nearest positive limit, while if it is below the input then it moves towards the nearest negative limit.
Once it reaches the limit, it will be stable. However, if the input goes past the limit,[clarification needed] then the feedback will change sign[dubious – discuss] and the output will move in the opposite direction until it hits the opposite limit. The system therefore shows bistable behaviour.

I think Besslers wheels did the first part where they quickly got up to speed and the CoG shifted closer to the axle and they stabilized

Graham

[agor95]

Hi Roxaway59

Is this from standstill or from already in free fall?

The rational is a rotating frame at that RPM.

The from standing still is another thing. Which needs another logical understanding.

The clarification for this RPM is an imagined device made up of an arm rotating at 16.67.
Attached to that is another hinged rod with a weight at the end.

The length is 4 metres in total.

This double pendulum is a solid rod until it hits the vertical.
Then the hinge is allow to function freely.

When the RPM is below 16.67 the weight falls down more than the rods. When the RPM goes above 16.67 then the rods fall down more than the weights.

This is like a chimney falling over where the main part falls faster than the end.

I trust you can see the dynamics and logic to this clarification?

[agor95]

Hi Roxaway59

Most of these advanced systems will be heavily controlled by the elite so caution is needed.

With caution is the way to go. You ask a question and ask for the working out details.

Then you check the details to see how valid is the answer.

ChatGPT is a word string generator trained on written reference text books.

[Roxaway59]

Hi agor95, if that's what it does then you can be sure that a lot of what it tells you will not be true.

There are some people who make a point of keeping old books because information is slowly being corrupted. A good example of this is climate change. People have noticed how the old data is slowly be altered to help drive the agenda they have.

My advice is you cant trust any of the elites systems. Sites like YouTube and Wikipedia cannot be fully trusted because they are full of made up narratives bogus science and propaganda. The internet itself is now white washed and surely I cant be the only one who's finding it difficult to get answers on the net.

Anyway I know that there are some people on the forum who know exactly what I am talking about and how bad this is but its important to leave these discussions till later. The search for what Bessler did is what is important because it can help humanity through these troubled times.

Graham