Besslers prime mover and its enabler.

[Trev]

Excellent analysis as always Fletcher, I look forward to future installments.

[daxwc]

Fletcher: IMO, MT13 is an overt tip-of-the-hat to his strong personal religious beliefs, and he publicly attributing his PM success to God in his books - as well as a chance to set the stage and introduce the main actors in his play ..

It is my speculation only, but I think astrology and astronomy play a bigger role in the mystery:

The number thirteen often carries an air of mystery, symbolizing the path that lies beyond established boundaries and inviting exploration of hidden realms. In the zodiac, a similar enigma exists: although traditionally structured around twelve signs, there’s a thirteenth constellation, Ophiuchus, that the Sun also traverses. Known as the Serpent Bearer, Ophiuchus embodies healing, wisdom, and secrets, standing outside the orderly framework of the twelve known signs. This addition of a thirteenth constellation represents a move from the closed, balanced system of twelve into a domain of mystical expansion. Thus, the number thirteen becomes a bridge from conventional understanding to a broader, more profound view of the cosmos.

Johann Bessler, the enigmatic 18th-century inventor of the perpetual motion wheel, may have aligned himself with this very symbolism when he decoded his original name into the alias “Orffyreus” through an alphabetic cipher. His choice to change his name can be seen not merely as a protective pseudonym but as a deliberate, symbolic shift into the unknown. Just as Ophiuchus adds a new dimension to the zodiac, Bessler’s alias hints at a journey beyond conventional knowledge, marking a spiritually inspired path toward revolutionary ideas. For Bessler, Orffyreus might have signified more than a name—it became an identity, placing him as a figure on the periphery of known science, guided by an spiritual purpose.

The idea of a thirteenth figure holds echoes in religious symbolism as well, particularly in the relationship between Jesus and his twelve disciples. Here, Jesus represents a thirteenth presence who transcends the earthly balance of the twelve and reveals a higher wisdom. Like Ophiuchus and the hidden mysteries it signifies, this thirteenth position can embody divine inspiration and purpose. Bessler’s journey from “Bessler” to “Orffyreus” might thus be seen as a conscious alignment with both the mystical energy of Ophiuchus and the sacred undertones of the thirteenth disciple. This choice positioned him as a “chosen” bearer of hidden, forbidden knowledge, elevating his pursuit of perpetual motion to a narrative of both scientific and spiritual revelation.

In embracing the number thirteen, Bessler sought to embody the transformative power it holds in both the zodiac and spiritual symbolism, viewing himself not merely as an inventor but as a visionary on a divine mission. Just as the presence of Ophiuchus calls for a shift in understanding beyond the twelve established zodiac signs, Bessler’s choice of “Orffyre” mirrors that path into the thirteenth realm. It stands as a testament to his vision: that true knowledge, like the thirteenth sign itself, lies just beyond the boundaries of the known, waiting for those bold enough to seek it.

[Roxaway59]

Dax can you shed light on Bessler and the people around him as far as secret societies like Freemasonry are concerned?

I don't like the idea that there could have been any collusion between the people involved in the story.

Graham

[daxwc]

Hi Graham,

You bring up an interesting point regarding Johann Bessler and the circles surrounding him. It’s important to remember that in 1717 Saxony, there were thousands of secret societies and fraternal organizations. The absence of modern media, such as television or the internet, meant that social gatherings and the exchange of ideas among intellectuals, scientists, and leaders were vital pastimes.

These societies provided a forum for discussion, experimentation, and collaboration, fostering a culture of inquiry and innovation. Members often shared interests in science, philosophy, and the arts, making such organizations significant centers of knowledge. Given this context, it’s not unusual that Bessler would have interacted with various individuals involved in these groups. For example it has been long claimed Leibniz was president of the R+C when he was younger and Bessler calls him brother.

However, while the presence of these societies does suggest a rich tapestry of intellectual exchange, it doesn’t necessarily imply collusion or conspiratorial behavior regarding Bessler's inventions. The atmosphere of curiosity and ambition among these groups likely encouraged diverse perspectives and ideas, but many individuals operated independently in pursuit of their own goals. Bessler's journey, as an inventor exploring the concept of perpetual motion, seems to reflect more of a personal quest for knowledge and recognition rather than a coordinated effort among secret societies.

The is lots of evidence Bessler belonged to societies, for example; Bessler’s reply to Wagner in AP:

Yes, my friend, we know you; you care only for getting rid of me
and my Wheel! You say, for instance, that certain people had
asked me various questions, and I had replied that I didn't want to
be bothered with such trivial matters. And then you say I once left
Leipzig for Gera, where I, bold as brass, joined the Order of
Orpheus, becoming a Doctor, and that, as an allusion to Orpheus,
the legendary poet and musician, at first wrote my assumed name
as "Orpheus". Acting out your usual role as perfidious hypocrite,
you go on in this manner till you claim to have proved the matter
beyond a shadow of a doubt

.
Notice Bessler doesn’t deny it. Bessler seems to allude to he is slightly off in his logic.

Or in Wagner’s writings:

Just recently, before this text had been committed to print, a certain celebrated society sent a dispatch to Orffyreus out of its own means and offered to give him 2000 ducat in coin if he would let his wheel run for 4 weeks, day and night, without stopping, and also allow the room in which the wheel is found to be sealed. Orffyreus, however, refused with all sorts of idle excuses, from which one gathers how false was his offer to come to an agreement, which he had made in the Leipzig newspaper.

In the early 18th century, secret societies were so prevalent in Saxony that their existence was often taken for granted and seldom raised suspicions among the general populace. With numerous lodges and fraternal organizations operating in various fields, from science to philosophy, these groups were an integral part of social and intellectual life. As a result, affiliations with such societies were seen as commonplace, making it unlikely for individuals like Bessler to be scrutinized or suspected for their connections. Instead, participation in these organizations was a standard practice that facilitated the exchange of ideas, fostering an environment where innovation and collaboration thrived without the shadow of conspiracy and wouldn’t even been worth reporting in 1717.

[Roxaway59]

Thanks Dax is anything more revealing known about Karl regards secret societies?

Graham

[daxwc]

An example is the Oculists who were early eye doctors. The "High Enlightened Oculist Order," revealed in the Copiale Cipher, cleverly used the metaphor of sight and vision to symbolize knowledge and enlightenment, intertwining their medical practices with their secretive rituals.
https://www.wired.com/2012/11/ff-the-manuscript/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copiale_cipher
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eam0Tk-1FyI

[daxwc]

ChatGPT:
Karl, Landgrave of Hesse (1609–1670)
Background and Role: Karl (or Charles) of Hesse, often referred to as Landgrave Karl of Hesse, ruled Hesse-Kassel from 1627 until his death in 1670. He was known for his interest in the arts, sciences, and the intellectual currents of his time.

Support for Rosicrucianism: Karl was known to have an affinity for the Rosicrucian movement, which emphasized esoteric knowledge, mystical philosophy, and alchemical practices. His court became a center for intellectual discourse, attracting thinkers and practitioners of various disciplines.

Promotion of Esoteric Ideas: Karl's support allowed Rosicrucian ideas to circulate more freely in Hesse. He was known to promote discussions on alchemy and philosophy among scholars and intellectuals at his court. This environment fostered the exploration of mystical and scientific ideas, aligning with the Rosicrucian ethos.

Rosy Cross and the Hesse Court: The Rosy Cross symbol, central to Rosicrucian ideology, became associated with the search for hidden knowledge and spiritual enlightenment. Under Karl’s patronage, these ideas were likely explored openly within his court and among scholars who were influenced by Rosicrucian texts and ideals.

Legacy of Karl’s Grandson: After Karl's death, his grandson, Landgrave Wilhelm VIII of Hesse, continued the tradition of supporting esoteric knowledge and the Rosicrucian movement. Wilhelm became a member of the Rosicrucian order and took on a leadership role within the organization. His involvement in the Rosicrucian movement demonstrated a continuation of the intellectual pursuits fostered by his grandfather. Wilhelm’s engagement with the order further solidified Hesse as a significant center for Rosicrucian thought in the 18th century.

Cultural Context: The proliferation of secret societies in Hesse during Karl's reign reflected broader cultural and intellectual trends in Europe. The absence of modern media meant that secret societies and fraternal organizations provided essential platforms for the exchange of ideas, where thinkers could gather to discuss philosophy, science, and spirituality.

Skepticism and Criticism: Despite the support for these societies, there were also skeptics and critics during this period who questioned the validity of their claims and practices. However, the prominence of the Rosicrucians and similar groups continued to grow due to their appeal to the search for deeper knowledge and understanding.

Conclusion
Karl, as Landgrave of Hesse, played a significant role in allowing the Rosicrucian movement to flourish in his territory. His court became a hub for esoteric thought and intellectual discourse, enabling the circulation of ideas that would influence many aspects of European philosophy and science in the subsequent centuries. His grandson, Wilhelm VIII, furthered this legacy by actively participating in the Rosicrucian order, ensuring that the quest for hidden knowledge continued in Hesse well into the 18th century. This connection highlights the enduring influence of Rosicrucian thought and the pivotal role of Hesse as a center for esoteric inquiry. If you need more specific information or details, just let me know!

[Roxaway59]

Thanks Dax yes I will.

Graham

[daxwc]

Graham:
"I don't like the idea that there could have been any collusion between the people involved in the story."

I understand your concerns Graham, but I see it a bit differently. To me, suggesting collusion among those involved is akin to saying that signing up for Netflix indicates an intention to take over the world—it simply reflects a shared interest in movies rather than any hidden agenda. During that time, many individuals were part of various intellectual and esoteric circles, sharing ideas and fostering discussions without necessarily plotting anything nefarious. The prevalence of secret societies like the Rosicrucians in Hesse during the early 18th century provided a framework for collaboration and the exchange of knowledge, much like how people today connect over common interests. It's essential to view these relationships as part of a vibrant intellectual culture rather than as conspiratorial collusion. I mean what did you expect the people to do for entertainment in 1717 beyond pubs while under the watchful eye of the church?

[Sam Peppiatt]

I think you can forget any collusion from other groups. As an inventor, most people wont have any thing to do with you, or your ideas-----------------------Sam

[Roxaway59]

I can imagine secret societies being fairly innocent and with good intentions back then but the problem has always been that people with bad intentions do bad things with what ever they get their hands on.

In our time the wrong doing is off the charts but my concern on the Bessler story is not about today's issues obviously.

Graham

[Roxaway59]

Anyway as long as there is no proof of any wrong doing we must continue to search for the prime mover.

Graham

[Fletcher]

Fletcher: IMO, MT13 is an overt tip-of-the-hat to his strong personal religious beliefs, and he publicly attributing his PM success to God in his books - as well as a chance to set the stage and introduce the main actors in his play ..

It is my speculation only, but I think astrology and astronomy play a bigger role in the mystery:

The number thirteen often carries an air of mystery, symbolizing the path that lies beyond established boundaries and inviting exploration of hidden realms. In the zodiac, a similar enigma exists: ...

Very good dax .. more objective justification for the personal importance of MT13 to B. , and his future esoteric readers, whether that be us today or his future students of his school of mechanics, if that had eventuated ..

My reasons for singling out the religious importance of 13 first and foremost was that for me it seemed more overt i.e. a direct visual connection to his beliefs and interests .. and since MT is a collection of pictures it seemed appropriate to look at the visual clues ..

[Fletcher]

Ok .. we've had some time to digest that ..

But is there anything anywhere in print, written or said by B., to support the concept of weights being raised up like lightening as per his MT13 comments ? ..

Well, there is .. at least 2 other instances come to mind ..

JC's AP pg 219 Chapter XXXVII s or pg 357 XXXVII b for Mike Senior's English Translation ..

AP pg 219 .. Schad’t nichts, wenn mein Mund gleich nock (schweigt),
Wie die überwucht so plötzlich steigt. x.
Wasch’ deine Hände erst mit Seifen,
Der du das Ding nicht kannst begreiffen,
Und wie die Kunst sich um und um
Heb’t übers Hypomochlium, &c.

Mike Senior translation .. ( Mike had a degree in translating Old German ) ..

"I don't want to go into the details here of how suddenly the excess weight is caused to rise. You can't comprehend these matters, or see how true craftsmanship can rise above innate lowly tendencies (as does a weight above the point of application of a lever)" – AP pg 357

DeepL translation ..

It's no harm if my mouth is (silent),
How the overweight rises so suddenly. x.
Wash your hands with soap first,
Who cannot grasp the thing,
And how art turns round and round
Lifts over the hypomochlium, &c.

ChatGPT translation ..

It does no harm if my mouth now falls silent, As the weight rises so suddenly. Wash your hands first with soap, You who cannot grasp the thing, And how the art turns around and around, Rising above the hypomochlion, &c."

n.b. possible nuance of the use of ‘suddenly’ .. the word suddenly adds a sense of quickness or abruptness to the action, suggesting that the weight rises unexpectedly, or in a way that might catch someone off guard ..

And .. AP pg 329 ..

.. According to him, Nature dictates that things gravitate downwards. But the weights which rest below must, in a flash, be raised upwards, and it is this that Wagner cannot force himself to accept. But, crazy Wagner, just note that that is indeed the case with my device. Ap pg 329

...............

It seems that weights are caused to rise "suddenly" in a runner .. by the same token it is a mechanical wonder not known to Wagner and others - therefore by elimination it is not the widely known Law of Levers and Mechanical Advantage based applied mechanics, the basis of all simple machines thru the ages, because Wagner would and did understand that ..

Additionally .. weights raised upwards restoring their GPE in a fast or sudden manner could be a problematic description on another front besides the obvious - i.e. using the example of a lever and a fulcrum one weight loses GPE and raises the GPE of another - from this we can calculate the Effort and the Load and how much Work is Done etc .. however if a weight is "launched" upwards very fast then it will have a high acceleration and gain its height in a very short amount of time - iow's it has a high acceleration and then it must be decelerated when reaching the height required or it will overshoot by a large margin - that means that the force required to get it to height quickly ( where is still has velocity and KE ) is far greater than a slow lift to the desired height ..

................

More tomorrow about MT15 ..

[daxwc]

Fletcher: however if a weight is "launched" upwards very fast then it will have a high acceleration and gain its height in a very short amount of time - iow's it has a high acceleration and then it must be decelerated when reaching the height required or it will overshoot by a large margin - that means that the force required to get it to height quickly ( where is still has velocity and KE ) is far greater than a slow lift to the desired height ..

Seems counterintuitive doesn't it. More like a slow rise would cost less energy. But maybe it is slow total time. Some of the time is accumulated charging a spring?

ChatGPT: Fletcher's idea here hinges on the relationship between acceleration, velocity, and the energy required to move a weight to a specific height. He’s essentially describing a scenario where the weight is quickly "launched" upwards, meaning it accelerates rapidly, resulting in a high initial force and velocity. Here’s the breakdown of why he’s saying a "fast" launch uses more force and potentially more energy:
1. High Acceleration = High Force: To achieve rapid acceleration (a fast "launch"), you need a greater force. In physics, the force required to accelerate a mass is given by F=maF = maF=ma, where mmm is the mass and aaa is the acceleration. Higher acceleration (a quick launch) requires more force than a gradual, slower lift with minimal acceleration.
2. Kinetic Energy Component: When the weight is launched quickly, it gains a lot of kinetic energy (KE=12mv2KE = \frac{1}{2}mv^2KE=21mv2), which can cause it to overshoot if not managed by decelerating or stopping it precisely at the desired height. So not only does it need energy to reach the height, but extra energy is "stored" as kinetic energy, which would need to be managed or dissipated (think of stopping or reversing it to avoid overshooting).
3. Energy Comparison with a Slow Lift: If you lift the weight slowly and steadily, it primarily gains gravitational potential energy (U=mghU = mghU=mgh) without much kinetic energy. In this case, the energy applied more directly translates to the potential energy gain. This approach is often more energy-efficient, as it avoids extra energy stored as kinetic energy, which would otherwise need to be corrected through deceleration or braking mechanisms.
So, the counterintuitive part is that while both approaches lift the weight to the same height, the fast lift requires more initial force and kinetic energy, and therefore potentially more total energy, than a slow, controlled rise to the same height.

Hope you don’t mind ChatGPT following along Fletcher. If you do just say so; obvious I can just run it in the background for myself.