Besslers prime mover and its enabler.

[johannesbender]

Roxaway , To be honest i don't have a negative or a positive opinion on the results of combining different "non runners" , its like trying to answer on the unknown for me especially since not all cases might be good or bad , i might be shown a few examples and form a negative opinion on the idea , but out of the blue comes a combination that happens to do something quite good - then what would i say ..

[Roxaway59]

JB I do think that proper conclusions can be drawn when it comes to combining different ideas. I just don't know how to formulate it yet.

The examples to the left of the wheel show its actions at different angles.

This idea is a simplification of the lever idea I showed recently. The fixed ramp is now missing but the other ram is the container containing the weight.

From the position shown the mechanisms are about to overbalance the wheel in an anticlockwise direction.

The tracer shows the path that the weights take.

Notice that gravity is able to compress the spring on the left and as the weight reaches around 6 o'clock the spring is able lift the weights GPE.

This single crossbar can only provide positive torque for a quarter of a turn.

Is it possible to take a simple idea like this and add another simple idea that complements this one so that together they become stronger enabling each one in effect to be able to turn more than a quarter of a turn?

Graham

[Roxaway59]

As an experiment engage the motor on the simulation and run it.

You will see that the path the weights take is perfect for an overbalanced wheel.

If it was possible to add a mechanism that evened out the negative imbalance then this simple idea would turn into a runner.

Graham

[thx4]

J'ai revu le MT15, les tiges fines les plus longues ne reposent sur rien, c'est les petites masses de la roue intérieur (mt13) entre 7h et 6 h qui remonter les tiges fines, donc rien à voir avec le MT 135.
Par ce simple biais, il semble être très positif dans le sens de rotation choisi. Donc les poids du mt13 interne doivent être plus lourd, que ceux des tiges.
Le passage des cordelettes (important) n'est pas très clair...

I've seen the MT15 again: the longest fine rods don't rest on anything, it's the small masses of the inner wheel (mt13) between 7 and 6 o'clock that wind up the fine rods, so it's nothing like the MT 135.
By this simple means, it seems to be very positive in the chosen direction of rotation. So the weights of the internal mt13 must be heavier than those of the rods.
The passage of the cords (important) is not very clear...

[johannesbender]

JB I do think that proper conclusions can be drawn when it comes to combining different ideas. I just don't know how to formulate it yet.

The examples to the left of the wheel show its actions at different angles.

This idea is a simplification of the lever idea I showed recently. The fixed ramp is now missing but the other ram is the container containing the weight.

From the position shown the mechanisms are about to overbalance the wheel in an anticlockwise direction.

The tracer shows the path that the weights take.

Notice that gravity is able to compress the spring on the left and as the weight reaches around 6 o'clock the spring is able lift the weights GPE.

This single crossbar can only provide positive torque for a quarter of a turn.

Is it possible to take a simple idea like this and add another simple idea that complements this one so that together they become stronger enabling each one in effect to be able to turn more than a quarter of a turn?

Graham

As an experiment engage the motor on the simulation and run it.

You will see that the path the weights take is perfect for an overbalanced wheel.

If it was possible to add a mechanism that evened out the negative imbalance then this simple idea would turn into a runner.

Graham

I see , it is quite the clever and simplistic design , and i also see the mass moves out to the left and in on the right .
If you found a mechanism that could fairly reduce counter torque , yes it would help a whole bunch , i would like to mention CF can shoot a weight back out at the apex of 12.

[Roxaway59]

Its been nearly a year since I joined the forum and I did so a few days after my birthday which is today.

At the time I didn't know if I was doing the right thing but now a year later I am certain that it was.

I have learned a lot since being here and I feel that progress has been made towards understanding the nature of Besslers wheel just not the finer details of how it managed to create and maintain the necessary form that the internal structure took.

As I have said before I will not give up looking for the answers and I know that others wont either.

All the best.

Graham

[justsomeone]

Well a very happy birthday to you !!! I hope you had a great day.

[Roxaway59]

Hi justsomeone, thanks I'm not a big drinker but I do like Jack Daniels so I had a few of those.

For me it was a reminder that I have been on the forum for a year and I was reflecting on some of the realizations that have been made that to me are important. How other people view this past year may be very different of course.

Another thing that I was thinking of is how best to move forward. There are a number of real experiments that I never got around to doing for one reason or another and apart from doing those I want to set up a permanent experimental wheel so that I am not just experimenting with simulators.

I have a lot of DIY to do over this next year so I will be cutting wood to make this wheel for experimenting as I go.

Graham

[Roxaway59]

Hi Fletcher, here is the sim I was talking about.

Maybe the speed increase is due to the weights shifting but I am not sure.

I think in my explanation I said the right side was hanging but actually its the left.

Graham

[Fletcher]

Hi Graham .. see reworked sim in attachments - it is set to 1000 fps but you can increase it back to 10,000 if you want - note I changed out your polygon stops for regular squares ( polygons seem more prone to spitting object apart with overlap adding KE - avoid polygons if you can ) - and added an Output for Total System KE beneath time - and Outputs for rope tensions etc - follow the plots of wheel velocity and System KE to see they are both decreasing ( that is the trend ) - note that they spike when the sphere's contact the stops ( added contact force vectors ) - this indicates that because elasticities are normal at 0.5 for ll bodies every time there is a contact some energy is lost to simulated heat, sound, vibration, deformation etc which must reduce the System KE/velocity total for conservation of energy etc ..

I also suggest that you swap out the ropes for either a rod, or a pulley, or a dampened spring element - and compare against the rope sim when you make these types of sim ( the swap-it-out check ) ..

Best -f