sparkshade wrote: ↑Sat Nov 30, 2024 2:42 am
Here's how the movement should be for the wheel to work. Could we store more energy into that spring and make it fire just above 9?
Interesting...
Your hand is basically helping it by keeping it from turning backwards , which can be replaced by ratchet and pawl or the one way bearings kind of thing , however i believe it wont cycle and complete a reset too , there is nothing one can do to it that will work except lifting .
More weight can be added and different radiuses can be used and different arm lengths can be used it would not make it work , it just changes the values around , because when you increase one value another decreases equally and when you decrease one value another increases equally that's how the law of conservation keeps the total value unchanged , in a ideal situation where there are no losses - if you have 10 gold nuggets and give 5 of it to your friend you still have 10 in total , and if your buddy gives 2 of his 5 to his friend then you still have 10 in total , all the physics values affect each other in this way , however when there is losses like friction and sound and heat and resistance involved - some of those gold nuggets gets given to strangers and they run off with it so you and your friends dont have all of the 10 anymore but together with those strangers there still is 10 in total , so no gold nuggets is created or destroyed they just change owners.
Moving out above 9 would be a lift ,the concept of lifting solves most non working designs , although no design has ever achieved a full reset where the height was restored again .
Anyway the build does as much as i expected it to do , and behaves as i envisioned it to behave , of course the locking/unlocking mechanism could not cope at times but even that would not make it work , the COG has to be restored back to its original height or higher than its original height before 6 to make it work , IOW it has to be lifted to restore its gravitational potential energy .
Love the analogy, lol. I'm just trying to figure out how we could counter act negative torque after locking, but anyway, without help from the creator, this isn't happening and the only help he gives us is basically: You do not understand.
That guy will go nowhere in life with that attitude. Anyway, gave it a chance and it's no runner. burden of proof in the hands of it's creator now!
sparkeshade,
I have to hand it to you; you figured the thing out. I didn't have a clue how it worked, let alone building it. Pendulums do lift themselves up for free. However. the difficulty is in the shifting of them, which requires additional lifting. It's this additional lifting that kills them, (as far as I know).
It's the so called zero sum game all over again, after they get back up to the top-------------------Sam
Last edited by Sam Peppiatt on Sat Nov 30, 2024 2:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Sam Peppiatt wrote: ↑Sat Nov 30, 2024 1:39 pm
sparkeshade,
I have to hand it to you; you figured the thing out. I didn't have a clue how it worked, let alone building it. Pendulums do lift themselves up for free. However. the difficulty is in the shifting of them, which requires additional lifting. It's this additional lifting that kills them, (as far as I know).
It's the so called zero sum game all over again, after they get back up to the top-------------------Sam
Well according to the creator I didn't figure it out. I still want him to come here and show us how to do it, but it won't happen.
But yes, it's free to move the pendulums when at 9. I do like the idea, but really, the show stopper is the engagement of the pendulum to rotate it in place. It's just a really bad idea to do that.
m2x wrote: ↑Sat Nov 30, 2024 7:19 am
I am merely a lurker ...
Most member start anonymous. Then register to see the restricted sections.
At least you ask questions from time to time.
Any device that has pendulums within a rotating frame cause so many questions.
Most of the time - even long terms members work on defining their motion.
Regards
[MP] Mobiles that perpetuate - external energy allowed
Bien vu, la conception ne prend que quelques minutes de nos jours, mais l'impression peut parfois depasser nos attentes.
A premiere vue on se dirige vers une Roberval...
A good point: these days, design only takes a few minutes, but the impression can sometimes exceed our expectations.
At first glance, it looks like a Roberval...
I am starting to feeling a bit lonely as a Norwegian on this forums. Then again, i'm fairly new , and not exactly known as a social person.
As for the "patent", i don't know. Maybe one could use some of the energy from the double pendulum flipping themself at 8-9 o'clock to get some extra momentum to the flywheel.
Like, if there was a bigger gear on atop of one pendulum, which interacted with circular gear inside or outside , and use energy from the flip itself to move a little bit. Still think that would be like a drop in the ocean compared to what is needed though. And, the patent says nothing of such a thing.
Or if the pendulums had really really long arms, long enough to reach across the centre. Not sure if that would change anything though. Pretty sure i read something about their length, but uhm, don't recall what it was when i write this.
Can one really just make a drawing, add a description and get a patent? Always thought , at least for PM related stuff, one needed to provide a WORKING model or prototype.
edit: Tested, if one of the most flimsy things i ever made in lego can be called testing. If the pendelum arms are long enough to reach across the centre of rotation, the wheel will rotate the other way. But if they are, they will probaly crash into the other pendulums. A bit fun though.
Last edited by Kattla on Sat Nov 30, 2024 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
sparkshade wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2024 7:32 pm
1 wing out of 3.
Bien vu, la conception ne prend que quelques minutes de nos jours, mais l'impression peut parfois depasser nos attentes.
A premiere vue on se dirige vers une Roberval...
A good point: these days, design only takes a few minutes, but the impression can sometimes exceed our expectations.
At first glance, it looks like a Roberval...
The negative attitude is not constructive - I don’t understand it , so please don’t be negative.
- if you reaction is fear change it to happiness.
I will post this also here:
The flywheel stores kinetic energy - you need a flywheel.
For thousands of years people have tried to make it - and none other than Bessler did it.
Leonardo Da Vinci also tried some models before he mathematically proved it impossible.
Newton didn't even want to see Bessler's wheel - because he didn't think it was possible.
I can also say that it is impossible if you want to use only gravity.
The reason for that is that gravity alone has no form of energy, without any puts of energy gravity has nothing to manipulate.
Gravity can be compared to a petrol engine - it can do a lot of work but it needs petrol.
Without petrol there is no work to get from the engine.
Petrol can be compared to kinetic energy - something that can do work.
My invention uses kinetic energy to drive the wheel. But it can only be done in the way I describe - by using kinetic energy to create potential energy which changes direction and generates more kinetic energy than what was used in the first part.
- if you lock a pendulum to this wheel and turn it to one side and then release it, it will swing back and forth until it comes to rest on top as you attached the pendulum.
If you do the same at the bottom when the pendulum it is hanging straight down and then turn it to one side and release it, it will swing back and forth on the underside until it comes to rest straight down as it was attached.
This shows that you have two potentials with different values.
~~~~~~~~~
First - this wheel runs because you can change the direction of the potential.
~~~~~~~~
The brake it the point - to work as a brake - it’s the brake that makes it work.!
this basic function:
- when the pendulum is free (with the lock function disconnected ) the wheel is in equilibrium at any position.
- if you lock one at the top and turn and release it the wheel starts a pendulum movement that stops with the pendulum back at the top.
- if you lock one at the bottom and turn turn and release it the pendulum movement is at the bottom.
Frog: First - this wheel runs because you can change the direction of the potential.
What is so hard to understand? If you have built it show us a video. At the very least a picture. You already wasted sparkshade time.
I already asked you how the triangle interacts with the flywheel.
If you wanted somebody to make it for you should just have come out and said as much. All I see is you conned somebody else into making it for you. Now you want adjustments.
Last edited by daxwc on Sun Dec 01, 2024 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Frog: First - this wheel runs because you can change the direction of the potential.
What is so hard to understand? If you have built it show us a video. At the very least a picture. You already wasted sparkshade time.
I already asked you how the triangle interacts with the flywheel.
If you wanted somebody to make it for you should just have come out and said as much. All I see is you conned somebody else into making it for you. Now you want adjustments.
Nah nah nah, give him a chance to send us a video of the 'trust me bro' wheel!
frog wrote:The negative attitude is not constructive - I don’t understand it , so please don’t be negative.
- if you reaction is fear change it to happiness.
I'm soooooo sacred.. please please savior, help us with your wheel!!!
frod wrote:
The flywheel stores kinetic energy - you need a flywheel.
For thousands of years people have tried to make it - and none other than Bessler did it.
Yeah that's true, yourself included, you didn't make it, nor did you try to make it.
fraud wrote:
The brake it the point - to work as a brake - it’s the brake that makes it work.!
Yeah that makes total sense, like when I'm in my car, I use the brake pedal to accelerate.
Last edited by sparkshade on Sun Dec 01, 2024 3:06 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Frog: First - this wheel runs because you can change the direction of the potential.
What is so hard to understand? If you have built it show us a video. At the very least a picture. You already wasted sparkshade time.
I already asked you how the triangle interacts with the flywheel.
If you wanted somebody to make it for you should just have come out and said as much. All I see is you conned somebody else into making it for you. Now you want adjustments.
Nah nah nah, give him a chance to send us a video of the 'trust me bro' wheel!
frog wrote:The negative attitude is not constructive - I don’t understand it , so please don’t be negative.
- if you reaction is fear change it to happiness.
I'm soooooo sacred.. please please savior, help us with your wheel!!!
frod wrote:
The flywheel stores kinetic energy - you need a flywheel.
For thousands of years people have tried to make it - and none other than Bessler did it.
Yeah that's true, yourself included, you didn't make it, nor did you try to make it.
fraud wrote:
The brake it the point - to work as a brake - it’s the brake that makes it work.!
Yeah that makes total sense, like when I'm in my car, I use the brake pedal to accelerate.
:-) actually you are quite funny.
Let me try to explain why the brake is energy.
- when you brake it this way, (by locking the pendulum at the top of the flywheel and turning the flywheel) the cost of lifting the pendulum is the same as if you did it without a flywheel.
When you change the direction of the potential energy and actually - MOVE THE POTENTIAL ENERGY - to the flywheel, the flywheel got longer distance to its axis of its turning point so - it got a higher momentum.
This relationship is between those two potentials - it’s the difference between those two that drives the wheel not gravity.
That's just bad understanding of physics, what you get is counter-torque and nothing else, I proved it with the physical build where-as you proved it with your imagination.
Build the damn thing and see for yourself how reality don't care what you think.
Last edited by sparkshade on Sun Dec 01, 2024 4:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Frog wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2024 4:39 pm
:-) actually you are quite funny.
Let me try to explain why the brake is energy.
- when you brake it this way, (by locking the pendulum at the top of the flywheel and turning the flywheel) the cost of lifting the pendulum is the same as if you did it without a flywheel.
When you change the direction of the potential energy and actually - MOVE THE POTENTIAL ENERGY - to the flywheel, the flywheel got longer distance to its axis of its turning point so - it got a higher momentum.
This relationship is between those two potentials - it’s the difference between those two that drives the wheel not gravity.
thx4 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 01, 2024 2:21 pm
Ideological thinking 🙂
I think there are no weights to mount....
At a certain speed ( we assume weights on the periphery of the wheel), the weights don't weigh anything at all....
I think that's understood lol, it would only take a micro-braking to see the weights take up the work again, and if the model is well made, the weights could only change their prominent position on one side. Micro-acceleration/Micro-braking. Micro-acceleration/Micro-braking 👽All through an inertie disk that goes faster than the basic motor.
Hi Frog,
I'm following you a bit more but your explanation is a bit long in coming
tell me if what you're thinking is close to what I'm trying to explain in this post above?
Not everything I present is functional, but a surprise can't be completely ruled out.Greetings.
