The Wheel is solved in a New Norwegian Patent

[sparkshade]

thx,

Raising pendulum weights apply their force at the position of the pivot. Dropping side, pendulum pivot is locked and center of mass shifts toward center of wheel on descending to right angle. This produces counter torque since heavy side is now the 2 pendulums on rising side at a position farther on the axle relative to descending mass. If the wheel is turning CW, it now brakes and want to come back to the locking position. (torque acting against rotation CCW)

Frog thinks that either the flywheel can counter act this or that the pendulum transfers energy into the flywheel when lock at the top (which make zero sense). The wheel cannot go past this position.

Assuming it can, the pendulum pair shifts from right angle to bottom region, creating some positive torque on the flywheel. Then at bottom, its now free to rise. He might think that releasing pendulum at the bottom is making them weightless because they are swing into their maximum PE, but the flywheel is also rotating and moving the pivot of pendulum UP which decreases the potential energy and basically neutralize the effect.

Even if magical physics was involved, because according to frog he discovered magic physics. There is no proof that this is a runner.

In my build ai respected the constrains as far as the lack of details or maths was provided. I also tried adding more or less mass to the flywheel and adjusting length of pendulums...

As far as reality is concerned, this is just another funky idea to put in the pile of failure

The conclusion is that the author of the patent never made a build and never figured out the magic physics that live in his head.

If I were to guess the thinking of frog here, he never realized that connecting the pendulum to the flywheel consumed energy. In fact, if I let all pendulum free on their pivot (no locking) the wheel turns easily for a long time without braking due to locking.

Until the fraud shows a working wheel in a video and mathematical proof, we can only conclude that he is unwilling and unable to make that wheel work. Confidence is thus very very low on the skillset of said author, he is unable to prove anything.

[Frog]

That's just bad understanding of physics, what you get is counter-torque and nothing else, I proved it with the physical build where-as you proved it with your imagination.
Build the damn thing and see for yourself how reality don't care what you think.

Hello Spark

You have a nice built - but not a correct one.
-You don’t have a flywheel so you don’t got any place to store kinetic energy.
- you don’t have a spring to straighten the pendulums.
- The wheel is too small to the size of the pendulums.

You think overbalancing wheels - and build after that thinking, and it’s a grate built even if it’s not completely accurate.
You have to understand my wheel to be able to build it. And I can promise you that if you understand it , and build it, and see that you really understood it - before you have seen it, nothing can compare to that mental boost.
But if you just follow a drawing it’s just work, you miss out on a life long experience.

My wheel -NEVER- get heavier on the manipulated side!
- understand this: if you swing a pendulum backward and forwards the weight is the same in total on the pivot point, it’s the same if you do it on a wheel while you turn it 180 degrees - so the total weight on both sides of the wheel doesn’t change on my wheel.
- But the energy does -
And that - CHANGE - runs the wheel.

[sparkshade]

You have NO wheel!!! You have NO math!!! You have NO proof!!!!!!!

Show your video, I'm sure we'll wait a long time.

[Frog]

Frog: First - this wheel runs because you can change the direction of the potential.

What is so hard to understand? If you have built it show us a video. At the very least a picture. You already wasted sparkshade time.

I already asked you how the triangle interacts with the flywheel.

If you wanted somebody to make it for you should just have come out and said as much. All I see is you conned somebody else into making it for you. Now you want adjustments.

Hello Dax
The three pendulum is mounted on the flywheel - so all forces is connected together.

Thank you for your input - Frog

[sparkshade]

'Trust me bro' -Frog

[daxwc]

Hi Frog,

I appreciate your enthusiasm and the effort you've put into explaining your design. However, for a productive discussion, it's crucial to provide concrete evidence to support your claims. Could you please share a video or detailed images of your build? This would help us understand your design better and validate your points. Without this, it's challenging to move forward constructively as you are not participating in good faith at least in my eyes.

[Tarsier79]

My wheel -NEVER- get heavier on the manipulated side!

Yes it does. And it gets lighter.

-You don’t have a flywheel so you don’t got any place to store kinetic energy.

I don't see any kinetic energy to store.

- you don’t have a spring to straighten the pendulums.

I think he does. And the springs don't add value as far as I am concerned.

- The wheel is too small to the size of the pendulums.

Please explain what difference the relative size makes to the functionality of the wheel.

[Tarsier79]

Not too long ago, I butted heads with a fraudster on overunity.com. He had a physical demonstration that looked good if you hadn't delved into hydrostatic pressures. He had a design with some measurements. He had some math to back his claim. He had builds ranging from a table-top model to a grain silo sized model, which all needed to be plugged in to "work".

I believe that at the beginning, he was investigating what he thought was the path to OU. Somewhere along the way, probably after his investors had paid for his large model and it didn't work, he jumped the fence into outright fraud. Some of his investors were adamant he was the real deal, and were convinced his claims of manufacturing the units in Russia were legitimate, despite criminal investigations, and court orders to pay back the money he had conned from his victims.

I think he never wanted to be fraudulent, but painted himself into a corner. And I believe he still thought he could get it working if he could just..., which is why he was defending his claim so strongly, in the hopes that if he could get it working, it would be a win-win.

Every time I graphed out his design using his own measurements and proved it was mathematically unviable, he moved the goal posts. "Your math is incorrect, because you didn't account for...."

Parts of this experience remind me of what is going on in this thread. Frog does have a design, and he honestly believes it will work. His claim of "wheel solved" might be correct in his mind, but it is a fraudulent statement without a physical working model or physical proof of concept.

English is Frogs second language, so information is lost in translation in both directions.

[Fletcher]

Something a little bit similar I just pulled from facebook - usually I pass right by them and don't read the claims but I was surprised by this guys actual level of understanding - and altho the click bait video was 'free energy' he actually admits there is none ..

** Maybe if Frog takes the time to read it he may recognize some of the similarities to his theory ..

...............

OmniCore Tech

Not a perpetual motion device, but still a very clever and functional system that could be very useful in a time of scarcity when resources are low. For those quick to call BS, carefully read the breakdown of the system below before slinging your negativity mud.

How the oscillating spring-powered flywheel generator system functions:

1. Springs on the Axle:
• The system uses multiple bungee-like springs positioned symmetrically around the axle. As the axle spins, each spring is stretched as it reaches a certain point in the rotation (likely through mechanical linkages or cams that pull the springs). Once stretched to their maximum tension, the springs naturally contract, pulling back toward their rest position. This contraction provides mechanical force that helps drive the rotation of the axle.
2. Flywheel for Momentum:
• A flywheel is connected to the axle, and its purpose is to store rotational energy and smooth out the motion. Flywheels have high rotational inertia, meaning they resist changes in their speed of rotation. When the springs are contracting and providing mechanical force, they accelerate the flywheel, and when they aren’t pulling, the flywheel’s inertia helps to keep the axle spinning smoothly. This reduces the need for constant input from the springs, allowing the system to maintain a more consistent rotational speed.
3. Continuous Energy Transfer:
• Since the springs are evenly spaced around the axle, at any given point in the rotation, some springs are being stretched while others are contracting and releasing their stored energy. This staggered arrangement ensures that the axle is receiving a continuous source of mechanical power from the springs, which helps keep the system in motion.
4. Kickstarting the System:
•To begin operation, the flywheel would need to be kick-started by an external force (such as manually spinning the axle or using an electric motor). Once the flywheel is spinning, the system relies on the springs continuously stretching and contracting to maintain its motion.
5. Energy Conversion and Losses:
•In a perfect system, the springs would keep cycling energy back and forth between potential and kinetic forms, with the flywheel helping to conserve that energy. However, in the real world, there are always losses due to friction (in the axle, flywheel bearings, and any linkages), air resistance, and material inefficiencies (in the springs, which lose energy over time as heat).
• These energy losses mean that while the system could run for a certain period without additional input, it will eventually slow down and stop unless more energy is added.
Why the System Doesn’t Break the Laws of Physics:
1. Conservation of Energy: The system does not create energy out of nothing. The energy comes from the external force applied to kick-start the flywheel and from the potential energy stored in the springs as they are stretched. The flywheel and springs then convert and transfer this energy between mechanical (rotational) and potential forms. Energy is simply being moved around within the system, not created.
2. Energy Losses (Thermodynamics): According to the second law of thermodynamics, no system is perfectly efficient. As the flywheel spins and the springs stretch and contract, some of the energy is lost to heat due to friction in the mechanical parts and air resistance. These losses mean that the system will eventually run down and stop unless new energy is added to compensate.
How Long It Could Run:
• Flywheel Inertia: The flywheel’s inertia plays a key role in determining how long the system could run. A heavier flywheel with greater inertia would store more energy and help the system spin longer, but it also requires more energy to get it moving.
• Spring Material: The material of the springs also affects longevity. Springs that retain their elastic properties well and don’t lose significant energy during each cycle would allow the system to run longer. However, over time, even high-quality springs experience fatigue and lose some of their ability to store and release energy efficiently.
•Friction and Drag: Low-friction bearings and minimal air drag would help the system operate longer by reducing the amount of energy lost to heat. High-efficiency bearings, well-lubricated components, and streamlined designs could extend the operational time.
Estimation of Operating Time:
In theory, the system could run for a significant amount of time if optimized for low friction and efficient energy transfer. However, without an external energy source, the flywheel and springs would eventually run down due to the unavoidable energy losses mentioned above.
• If you started with a highly efficient system, it could run for several minutes to hours depending on the size of the flywheel, the strength and durability of the springs, and the mechanical setup.
• For a small-scale system, the running time might be measured in minutes, whereas larger, well-optimized systems could potentially run for hours before they require another kick-start or additional energy input.
External Energy Input:
To keep the system running indefinitely, you would need an external energy source to continuously “kick” the system, either by periodically re-stretching the springs (using part of the generated energy or external inputs like wind or solar power) or by recharging the flywheel through mechanical or electrical means.
Conclusion:
The spring tension-powered flywheel system doesn’t violate any physical laws because it follows the principles of energy conservation and thermodynamics. The system can run for a while after being started, but due to inevitable energy losses (friction, heat), it will eventually slow down and stop unless additional energy is added. With an external energy source or highly efficient design, the system could run for extended periods, but it cannot run indefinitely without some form of input.

[Robinhood46]

I did say we need to change the definition of perpetual motion.
It does say "you would need an external energy source to continuously “kick” the system, either by periodically re-stretching the springs".

I was for PM's new definition "poked occasionally with a stick", but i am not fussy.
If we can all agree that perpetual motion is; a mechanism that once put in motion, will for ever stay in motion as long as it receives a good kick every now and again. That'll do me, I'm not going argue about details. We can then move on and start working on a time machine.

[sparkshade]

We'll never see a working model for the "trust me bro wheel".

[Frog]

Something a little bit similar I just pulled from facebook - usually I pass right by them and don't read the claims but I was surprised by this guys actual level of understanding - and altho the click bait video was 'free energy' he actually admits there is none ..

** Maybe if Frog takes the time to read it he may recognize some of the similarities to his theory ..

...............

OmniCore Tech

Not a perpetual motion device, but still a very clever and functional system that could be very useful in a time of scarcity when resources are low. For those quick to call BS, carefully read the breakdown of the system below before slinging your negativity mud.

How the oscillating spring-powered flywheel generator system functions:

1. Springs on the Axle:
• The system uses multiple bungee-like springs positioned symmetrically around the axle. As the axle spins, each spring is stretched as it reaches a certain point in the rotation (likely through mechanical linkages or cams that pull the springs). Once stretched to their maximum tension, the springs naturally contract, pulling back toward their rest position. This contraction provides mechanical force that helps drive the rotation of the axle.
2. Flywheel for Momentum:
• A flywheel is connected to the axle, and its purpose is to store rotational energy and smooth out the motion. Flywheels have high rotational inertia, meaning they resist changes in their speed of rotation. When the springs are contracting and providing mechanical force, they accelerate the flywheel, and when they aren’t pulling, the flywheel’s inertia helps to keep the axle spinning smoothly. This reduces the need for constant input from the springs, allowing the system to maintain a more consistent rotational speed.
3. Continuous Energy Transfer:
• Since the springs are evenly spaced around the axle, at any given point in the rotation, some springs are being stretched while others are contracting and releasing their stored energy. This staggered arrangement ensures that the axle is receiving a continuous source of mechanical power from the springs, which helps keep the system in motion.
4. Kickstarting the System:
•To begin operation, the flywheel would need to be kick-started by an external force (such as manually spinning the axle or using an electric motor). Once the flywheel is spinning, the system relies on the springs continuously stretching and contracting to maintain its motion.
5. Energy Conversion and Losses:
•In a perfect system, the springs would keep cycling energy back and forth between potential and kinetic forms, with the flywheel helping to conserve that energy. However, in the real world, there are always losses due to friction (in the axle, flywheel bearings, and any linkages), air resistance, and material inefficiencies (in the springs, which lose energy over time as heat).
• These energy losses mean that while the system could run for a certain period without additional input, it will eventually slow down and stop unless more energy is added.
Why the System Doesn’t Break the Laws of Physics:
1. Conservation of Energy: The system does not create energy out of nothing. The energy comes from the external force applied to kick-start the flywheel and from the potential energy stored in the springs as they are stretched. The flywheel and springs then convert and transfer this energy between mechanical (rotational) and potential forms. Energy is simply being moved around within the system, not created.
2. Energy Losses (Thermodynamics): According to the second law of thermodynamics, no system is perfectly efficient. As the flywheel spins and the springs stretch and contract, some of the energy is lost to heat due to friction in the mechanical parts and air resistance. These losses mean that the system will eventually run down and stop unless new energy is added to compensate.
How Long It Could Run:
• Flywheel Inertia: The flywheel’s inertia plays a key role in determining how long the system could run. A heavier flywheel with greater inertia would store more energy and help the system spin longer, but it also requires more energy to get it moving.
• Spring Material: The material of the springs also affects longevity. Springs that retain their elastic properties well and don’t lose significant energy during each cycle would allow the system to run longer. However, over time, even high-quality springs experience fatigue and lose some of their ability to store and release energy efficiently.
•Friction and Drag: Low-friction bearings and minimal air drag would help the system operate longer by reducing the amount of energy lost to heat. High-efficiency bearings, well-lubricated components, and streamlined designs could extend the operational time.
Estimation of Operating Time:
In theory, the system could run for a significant amount of time if optimized for low friction and efficient energy transfer. However, without an external energy source, the flywheel and springs would eventually run down due to the unavoidable energy losses mentioned above.
• If you started with a highly efficient system, it could run for several minutes to hours depending on the size of the flywheel, the strength and durability of the springs, and the mechanical setup.
• For a small-scale system, the running time might be measured in minutes, whereas larger, well-optimized systems could potentially run for hours before they require another kick-start or additional energy input.
External Energy Input:
To keep the system running indefinitely, you would need an external energy source to continuously “kick” the system, either by periodically re-stretching the springs (using part of the generated energy or external inputs like wind or solar power) or by recharging the flywheel through mechanical or electrical means.
Conclusion:
The spring tension-powered flywheel system doesn’t violate any physical laws because it follows the principles of energy conservation and thermodynamics. The system can run for a while after being started, but due to inevitable energy losses (friction, heat), it will eventually slow down and stop unless additional energy is added. With an external energy source or highly efficient design, the system could run for extended periods, but it cannot run indefinitely without some form of input.

Thank you Fletcher

This is a funny idea and the intention is good, but the springs can’t give more potential energy than you put in this model.
It’s not like my wheel in any way.
The idea behind this is that the spring is stretched with different distance to the axis than the other side where it is pulled back.
But unfortunately It’s the same total on both sides - it will never give any more energy than you put in, it’s the same amount of energy used and given in the same direction, (-friction).
~~~~~~~~~~~
My wheel has two different potentials in different directions with different torque. (from the same kinetic energy input)
~~~~~~~~~~
Anyway we’re all learning from this and other things that don’t work.

- Frog

[sparkshade]

My wheel has two different potentials in different directions with different torque. (from the same kinetic energy input)
~~~~~~~~~~
Anyway we’re all learning from this and other things that don’t work.

- Frog

Can't wait for when you show us a video of your wheel and the math that back your theory!

[sparkshade]

I asked chatgpt to explain a copy paste of the information you've given, it's glorious! :)

The description you provided is complicated and appears to blend some plausible mechanics concepts with vague and possibly pseudoscientific claims. Here's a breakdown to help you assess its validity:
Key Concepts in Physics and Mechanics:

Flywheel Equilibrium:
A balanced flywheel (with evenly distributed masses) should be able to remain in any position without favoring one over the other. If a flywheel is unbalanced, it will naturally seek an equilibrium position due to gravitational forces.

Double Pendulum Dynamics:
Double pendulums are chaotic systems. Their motion depends on their initial conditions and the forces acting on them. They do not inherently "gain force" from their own swinging—energy transfer between the pendulum and the flywheel depends on how they interact.

Locking and Oscillations:
Locking a pendulum at the top of the flywheel and introducing motion could indeed create an equilibrium position due to the center of mass shifting. However, this is not groundbreaking—it’s standard mechanics.

Potential Energy and Kinetic Energy:
Potential energy in a pendulum converts to kinetic energy as it swings. Similarly, potential energy in the system can affect the flywheel, but energy must come from somewhere—it cannot be created from nothing.

Red Flags in the Description:

Vague and Contradictory Claims:
Phrases like "weights acted in pairs," "weights gained force from their own swinging," and "the potential is the source of new kinetic energy" are unclear and don't align with established physics principles.
The notion of a flywheel developing a "new equilibrium position" seems to imply an energy input or mechanical reconfiguration rather than a naturally emergent property.

"Something Completely New in Physics":
This is a common red flag in pseudoscience. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, typically in the form of rigorous experimentation and peer-reviewed studies.

Energy "Creation":
There is no indication of how energy conservation is maintained in this system. Physics doesn't allow for new energy to appear spontaneously without a source.

Likely Explanations:

The described system might use clever mechanisms to redistribute energy (e.g., from the pendulum to the flywheel), but it's likely not revolutionary.
The oscillations and changes in equilibrium could be explained by conventional mechanics without invoking "new physics."

Suggested Approach:

Model the System Mathematically:
Analyze the forces, torques, and energy transformations in the system using classical mechanics.

Experiment or Simulate:
If feasible, simulate the setup using software like MATLAB or a physics engine to observe behavior without making speculative assumptions.

Critical Thinking:
Be skeptical of claims about "new physics" without empirical evidence. Instead, frame the problem within established principles and look for areas where the explanation is incomplete or oversimplified.

This description doesn't convincingly explain a violation of known physical laws, and it's worth analyzing the system further to determine if there's a misunderstanding or overstatement of its novelty.

[daxwc]

Frog: The negative attitude is not constructive - I don’t understand it , so please don’t be negative.
- if you reaction is fear change it to happiness.

WTF are you blabbering about. Your refusal to even address a real build is the problem. Delusional visions of running wheels are not proof. Getting a patent even is not proof.

Frog, if you feel offended, it's easy to address. This forum has had many heated discussions over the years with claims but no proof. Often, it's excuses like "I don't know how to run a camera," "I don't know how to take a video," or "I don't know how to upload." Yet, these same people can use fancy software design packages. People here are jaded. It is up to you to do over your part.

Carl Sagan famously said -"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

It is up to you to raise the bar not the forum. But you have no pictures or videos; maybe never even built it; otherwise you would have presented by now. All we get is a patent application. Nobody should waste their time even interacting till you do the minimum.

This all could have been avoided if you just said : "I have an idea". Then you didn't need to prove anything. Of course Sparks probably wouldn't have built it for you free of charge. Shame is what you should feel.