the gravitational energy converter

[Fletcher]

Hi Georg .. here is a close up of one side of your circus-wheel configuration ..

I have drawn in a red line and a blue line to show you some things ..

Since the arm weight and the roller weight are the same mass then the mid point of the blue line indicates where their combined COM would be ( relative to the sub-axle ) ..

The red line shows the connection from the center of the sub-axle to the center of the roller-weight - this is a constant length and does not change - the roller-weight is in contact ( static friction ) with the ring but cannot roll around it because the effective radius does not change at any time - iow's there is not a path of least resistance for it to escape to .. i.e. it can not roll around the rim, and there is no advantage to having the L lever pinned above the sub-axle imo ..

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Given that the radius does not change I have rebuilt the sim with the sub-axle pivoted to the mid-width point of the L lever as the second pic shows ..

Will come back with animations of the sims running soon ..

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[Fletcher]

Here is the first sim animation of what wm2d predicts will happen in your circus-wheel Georg ..

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[Fletcher]

Here is what wm2d predicts will happen with the direct mid-width L lever pivot position that also doesn't change radius length etc ..

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The real circus-wheel is well counter-balanced and has a live performer in one half who expends energy to lift their leg and step forward up the ring to restore the imbalance / torque - their chemical energy expenditure is converted into Angular Momentum / RKE and RPM of the circus-wheel ..

[Sam Peppiatt]

Shouldn't the inner ring be at the bottom of the outer ring so that it can roll to the right-------------------Sam

[SHADOW]

Bonjour Sam,
George nous impose un principe sans anneau roulant!
Son système n'est qu'un oscillateur à amplitude variable.
Donc pas de rotation de roue!

Hello Sam,
George imposes a principle without a rolling ring!
Its system is only an oscillator with variable amplitude.
So no wheel rotation!

[Sam Peppiatt]

SHADOW,
Oh-------------------is that it? I see what you are saying. But, wouldn't it be better if the inner ring could roll to the right----------Sam (I guess it's all Bull Shit, just like thx4 suggested).

[Georg Künstler]

Hi Fletcher,
many thanks that you have provided this simulation.

In my construction I have a roll-up of the cylinder which is rolling on the rim.
The l-shaped weight always try to reach the 4 o'clock position.

In your simulation it looks that you have pinned the cylinder on the rim, and the cylinder can not roll.

[Georg Künstler]

Hi Sam,
you have seen it right!!

[johannesbender]

Is that twice the weight at half the length to the left of the axle ?

[Fletcher]

Hi Georg ..

Hi Fletcher, many thanks that you have provided this simulation.

In my construction I have a roll-up of the cylinder which is rolling on the rim. Please provide a video of what your construction is doing so we can all see doing what you say it is doing i.e. rolling up the rim ..

The L-shaped weight always try to reach the 4 o'clock position. I understand what you are saying your physical construction always does but the fact remains that the radius from the sub-axle ( center of the ring ) to where the roller contacts the ring is always the same distance ..

In your simulation it looks that you have pinned the cylinder on the rim, and the cylinder can not roll. NO, I have not pinned it to the rim, but like all real-world builds there are static frictions and rolling ( kinetic ) frictions in play which are binding it - additional to that making a complete ring for the roller to run on allows up to 360 straight edge slices to approximate a smooth inside curve - I could make the ring in 4 sections and increase the curve accuracy by 4 x but even real-world builds are not exact ..

So what I've done Georg is build another WM sim with lots of Slider Inputs including roller radius to allow very fine tuning for clearances etc - and increased weights and rollers to 5.0 kgs - and also as an extra precaution turned OFF ALL collisions so the roller does not contact the ring - then I built a green rod-latching proxy which holds the L-Lever until its rotation degrees is below the Latch Input value slider when it disengages etc etc - effectively a crude one-way latching device - the sim starts off and then loses RPM until it stops - because the L-Levers have nothing to "excite" them ( i.e. give them energy or oscillation ) and cause them to swing higher each time ..

*** Please provide a video of your build in action so that we can study your L-lever repeatedly climbing back up and increasing the wheel rpm, instead of decreasing it as the sim does - thanks ..

In the meantime here is an animation of what I am talking about and the sim included for anybody else who wants to try something different than I tried ..

Best -f

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[Fletcher]

To wrap this up, unless Georg has a video to show to prove his assertions that the L-levers keep climbing back up to 4 o'cl in his circus wheel .. in which case I will revisit it if able to ..

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This is about as good as I can do in wm2d - it's accurate as far as I can tell or anticipate ..

** I have added a "Sliding" Keyed Slot element to his L-levers where they right angle connect to the sub-axles ( as per his original instructions to have offset L-levers ) - this allows the rollers to turn on the ring inner rim i.e. it gives the assemblies some "give" acting like a self adjusting shock absorber - this stops them binding up with friction contact ( even when frictions is small ) ..

** Sim attached .. have a play .. improve it ..

** Note that the rollers now roll, and the system COM / COG torque turns the circus wheel - then it swings back the opposite direction - the rpm fluctuates between positive and negative until the rpm oscillations die down and it comes to a stop ( energy lost to Elasticity / COR dissipative losses ) - the important part is that the L-levers do not climb back up the ring as is said to happen - the whole assembly moves rather than the L-levers constantly rolling up the ring trying to find 4 o'cl .. imo ..

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[Fletcher]

Should have put this up yesterday ..

It is the direct comparison to yesterdays sim - also with a sliding slot but located mid width of the L-lever ..

The sim predicts both behave for all intents and purposes in identical ways as can be seen in the animation below - the L-levers roll down the ring losing Net GPE and shifting the system COM / COG - the relocated system COM causes a torque on the wheel - the L-levers do not climb back up the ring and the wheel finds its position of least PE ( balance position ) ..

.. sim attached ..

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[Georg Künstler]

I have prepared some videos showing that the l-Shaped weight will perform a roll-up function.

The videos are under @georgkuenstler3108 under youtube-videos

[johannesbender]

Your videos show you rolling the wheel on its axle and the floor , however your drawings show the wheels unable to roll by being attached to a bar on the rims , that does not correlate , however i believe the result wont be much better , better luck next time though.

[johannesbender]

I understand there is a relative rotation though just to be clear , but theres video showing the weight against the drum as drawn but almost stuck in position and the drum being rotated to show it "keeling" back to its starting position , which arent the same as having the drums fixed in place together on a bar instead of being seperate things , the whole structure would act together.

Then theres video where wheel weights arent touching the drums at all , a space is left for the inner drum i believe , and they balance on the axle and therefore stay like that , but the drum is being rolled to show them staying there for some reason .

Then theres video of those spaced, with the inner drum added , and now the weights press against the inner drum , yet the thing keels and the weights arent pushing constantly back up to 4 again.

So its not entirely correlating to what georg is saying and showing , but irrespective of these inconsistincies it wont change the outcomes imo.