Hypothesis .. Raising GPE without using Law of Levers ? ..

[Sam Peppiatt]

Fletcher,
I'll take a stab at it. Why a tapered shaft? it makes no sense. It's the last thing you would want. Was it Wolfe that said that? The only possible explanation that I can come up with is; he meant reduced. I.E., the massive wooden axle was "reduced" in size, to an iron pin only 3/4 of an inch in diameter. SHADOW found an old drawing that showed how the rod was fitted into the wood. The end of the wood axle was slightly tapered but, I doubt Wolfe was talking about that.

To the bearings and or blocks as I would have done it. The posts, the blocks, axle and wheel all in line. The axle and shaft just long enough to fit between the pillars. But, a little bit shorter for clearance; end play if you will. I see the block maybe 4 inches thick with the "U" shape notch at the top end of it bolted to the post. A brass bushing must have been fitted over the iron shaft, to set into the "U". To me this is the best, easiest and strongest way to do it.

Seams like they would have to lift both ends up at the same time very carefully-----------------Sam

(why do I get the feeling that I've been set up)

[daxwc]

Fletcher: 3) Why doesn’t he just screw the bottom of the legs down if it is vibrating around. Because the post is attached to the ceiling and rests in a bottom sleeve mount ( it forms a post surround ) - that is where Borlach and Gartner saw direct evidence of the post lifting and falling ( at B ) because the paint work there showed the post moving up and down - they also saw a discoloured paint patch near the axle ( spot A ) also move up and down - thus the axle moved up and down with the post imo ..

So what are you suggesting there was no C cut-out (or should look like a G) but the top pillars came off and rebolted after translocation?

His pictures in MT don’t look like that it looks like he backed the cranks out. As Stewart’s picture showed. But why say he lifted them out?

They were all satisfied there was no springs in the posts or that they were not hollow.

[daxwc]

He just seems to avoid it.

[daxwc]

MT 81 is what most people would build.

[spinner361]

MT 81 is what most people would build.

What makes you say that?

[SHADOW]

Bonjour à tous,
Si les poteaux étaient fixés sur un plancher reposant sur une charpente, cela me semble normal que ces derniers avaient un mouvement alternatif de haut en bas.

la conception de fixation de ces poteaux permet ce type de mouvement, la différence d'élasticité entre les poutres basses et haute du bâtiment explique cette oscillation.
On peut penser qu'à l'intérieur de la roue il y avait un balourd générant cette oscillation.

J'ai un doute sur la conception des paliers présenté par Steward, ils sont fonctionnels mais l'arbre en bois se serait fendu sous la charge.
Pour que Bessler présente sa roue dans une foire il aurai fallu, à mon sens, la création d'énorme massifs bien ancrés dans le sol si la théorie du balourd est correcte.

J'ai aussi un doute sur l'interprétation du palier ouvert, car nous n'avons pas de croquis de témoin, paliers ouvert ne veut pas forcement dire qu'ils n'étaient pas fermés lors du fonctionnement. je n'ai pas encore trouvé ce type de paliers en U dans les archives des près industries, ni en meunerie, ni en horlogerie! si quelqu'un trouve ce modèle je suis preneur pour réviser ma position.


Hello everyone,
If the posts were fixed on a floor resting on a frame, it seems normal that these had an alternating movement from top to bottom.

the design of the posts allows this type of movement, the difference in elasticity between the low and high beams of the building explains this oscillation.

It is possible that inside the wheel there was a misbalance generating this oscillation.
I have a doubt about the design of the bearings presented by Steward, they are functional but the wooden shaft would have cracked under the load.

In my opinion, for Bessler to present his wheel at a fair it would have been necessary to create huge massifs well anchored in the ground if the theory of the unbalance is correct.

I also have a doubt about the interpretation of the open bearing, because we do not have a sketch of a witness, open bearings does not necessarily mean that they were not closed during operation. I have not yet found this type of U-bearings in the archives of near industries, neither in the milling industry nor in watchmaking! If anyone finds this model I am a bidder to revise my position.

[Sam Peppiatt]

SHADOW,
Could you post the drawing that showed the details of a wood axle, with an iron rod fitted into the end of it with, an iron ring to keep it tight and from splitting-----------------Sam

[daxwc]

Shadow: I also have a doubt about the interpretation of the open bearing, because we do not have a sketch of a witness, open bearings does not necessarily mean that they were not closed during operation. I have not yet found this type of U-bearings in the archives of near industries, neither in the milling industry nor in watchmaking! If anyone finds this model I am a bidder to revise my position.

It is just predecessor to the crankcase bearing. Doesn't take much imagination just to take the sides up and leave the top off, although I don't remember ever seeing one.

[Georg Künstler]

I have also used open U-bearings in my construction; they are necessary so that the wheel can be removed from the support.

The fix between the bottom and the ceiling is only necessary when the wheel is lifting and dropping periodically the 4 bars, which will drop on the floor like a hammer.

The 4 bars only serve to dissipate energy, because otherwise the rotation of the wheel would become too fast.
The wheel itself is running in a positive feedback loop.
So we need this type of control.
The 4 bars are only there for the regulation.
In the other case Bessler used the pendulums you can see outside, attached to the wheel, they are also only there for the speed control.

Look at Besslers words, "Das Rad läuft auch ohne die angehängten Pendel" "the wheel also runs without the attached pendulums"

So the oscillator, oscillation is in the wheel. and in his first versions the wheel was self-starting, it was out of balance from the beginning.

[daxwc]

.


Here is a old style u bearing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKLAAFFKpB0&t=110s

They are hard to find pictures of because they were so basic and looked over. Reminds me of how we in medieval times did not eat 3 times a day but ate twice.

Or another example is biphasic sleeping was so normal that it was barely recorded. That was before lighting and electricity in the medieval times in Britain people slept twice a night especially in the winter. You would have your first sleep get up for a few hours called "the watch" then back to bed till dawn on your 2nd sleep. It was so normal people mostly forgot to record it.
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20170 ... ormal.aspx

[SHADOW]

Bonjour Daxwc,
Je connais ce type de palier à demi coussinet, antérieurement ils étaient utiles dans les chemins de fer avec des demi bague en bronze ou en régule.
Ils doivent êtres utilisés fermés car il y a un risque d'échappement de l'arbre en fonction de la vitesse et des efforts exercés sur le mécanisme.
Quant au palier en U présenté dans la vidéo je ne le vois que dans une utilisation oscillante.

Hello Daxwc,
I know this type of bearing half-bearing, previously they were useful in the railways with half ring bronze or regular.
They must be used closed because there is a risk of escape from the shaft depending on the speed and the forces exerted on the mechanism.
As for the U-bearing shown in the video, I only see it in oscillating use.

[daxwc]

26 RPM isn't screaming RPM ;)

[Sam Peppiatt]

daxwc,
That's it, the water wheel shows how it was done. Drill a hole in the center, cut a slot(s), taper the end, then drive the rod in. Finally drive an iron ring(s) over the end of the axle to clamp the rod tightly and prevent it from splitting.

It had to be that way---------------Sam

[SHADOW]

Pilon
L'effort est orienté vers le demi palier!

drumstick
The effort is directed towards the half-level!

[daxwc]

I guess he doesn’t need to C notch the Pillar itself if the hole is big enough he can just angle the axle in.
Because it can jump is why the first pulley is down on the floor. So why the pillar? Just to hang the pendulum off? Seems like Wagner and his ilk had legitimate concerns.

Other mills were not building their pillars like that. What is going on. B/