Hypothesis .. Raising GPE without using Law of Levers ? ..

[Fletcher]

Thanks JC.

My biggest surprise with all that was the Gera small wheel was moved around.

It wasn't the Gera wheel dax - it mentions his first wheel at Gera, then is talking about the translocation tests at Merseburg where Karl etc were in attendance, iinm ..

[daxwc]

Fletcher, I don’t think there’s much you could suggest that I’d dismiss outright; who’s come up with more crazy ideas than me over the years? From weights with directional shifting 'moment of inertia' to stored energy systems "come-back cans; to my latest work with counterbalanced lifting. I try to explore it all. I’ve even put forward ideas I knew had no chance of working, just in case they sparked a new perspective or helped refine the frame of reference.

[daxwc]

Fletcher: It wasn't the Gera wheel dax - it mentions his first wheel at Gera, then is talking about the translocation tests at Merseburg where Karl etc were in attendance, iinm ..

You are probably right I was going by the flow of dates and places.

For, in 1712, during his stay at Gera in the
Voigtland, he hit upon the genuine Prepondium, and so it was
that on 6th June of that year he set in motion the first model of
his Perpetual or self-moving Mobile, three and a half Leipzig
Ell in diameter and four inches in thickness, for the very first
time. (page 7) But later it was demonstrated on many
occasions in the presence of the Count himself and many
others persons of high rank, including renowned
mathematicians, engineers and scholars versed in all of
Nature’s curiosities. The machine was even moved about
from one place to another, but never failed to run as designed,
and as a result of all this it could clearly be attested that the
device’s performance was authentic.

It later came about that, having had some success particularly
among the younger people, Orffyreus moved to the high
princely office of Weissenfelz, which was just an hour from
Zeitz (south-west of Leipzig) at Draschwitz Manor.

The words "in the presence of the Count himself" doesn't sound like it is happening in Gera Saxony.

[daxwc]

So another mystery:

Copilot: In 1712, Gera was part of the Principality of Reuss-Gera, ruled by a Prince, not a Count.

Copilot: Landgrave Karl I von Hessen-Kassel, also known as Karl of Hesse-Kassel, was indeed the ruler in 17121. He was not referred to as a Count but as a Landgrave, which is a title used by certain German princes.

Copilot: In 1712, Gera was part of the Principality of Reuss-Gera, ruled by a Prince. However, the land was indeed divided into smaller jurisdictions managed by lower-ranking officials, such as counts, barons, and other nobles who oversaw different regions or estates within the principality.

So Karl's title isn't a Count but there might be a Count designated to Gera.

[Fletcher]

GB was published in December 1715 .. AP and DT well after iinm ..

[Fletcher]

Fletcher, I don’t think there’s much you could suggest that I’d dismiss outright; who’s come up with more crazy ideas than me over the years? From weights with directional shifting 'moment of inertia' to stored energy systems "come-back cans; to my latest work with counterbalanced lifting. I try to explore it all. I’ve even put forward ideas I knew had no chance of working, just in case they sparked a new perspective or helped refine the frame of reference.

I don't doubt that dax .. but it is not just about the mechanics of the idea itself - it is where the energy is coming from for a runner to self-sustain itself that the head needs to get around in my idea ..

[daxwc]

Well, Fletcher, I think only a very few are concerned about where the extra energy comes from. Most people aren't focused on the physics; they're more intrigued by the story and the mystery surrounding the wheel. They see the perpetual motion wheel as a fascinating concept and believe they have insights into its mechanical aspects. That's enough to captivate them. It’s not critical to the wheel’s existence.

[Fletcher]

That is also mostly no doubt true - for me it is all of that, plus the Physics of Energy, and Conservation Laws, that hopefully can eventually explain why a runner can be real - for me that means finding a plausible explanation for " where the extra energy comes from " - follow the energy and the mechanics must eventually become less mysterious - however, the pull of gravity is strong :)

[Kattla]

but it is not just about the mechanics of the idea itself - it is where the energy is coming from for a runner to self-sustain itself that the head needs to get around in my idea ..

I tend to think of the source of energy (for a selfrunning machine) as the same source that raindrops get their energy from.
That is, whatever causes stuff to accelrate downward at 9.83 meters pr second second.

We don't seem to run out it either, although i am not sure if converting it to other forms of energy is good. Could be bad for the overall balance,
and seeing how we heat up this planet with limited energy, i'd worry what we do if we had nearly infinite amounts of it.

I did think the latter over for some time, a couple days, but decided perhaps i should try invent instead of worry too much.

[thx4]

But where does energy come from?
Over time, this concept has disappeared: a falling object needs no energy and consumes nothing! at that point, it produces energy... Yes, but you have to lift the weight that has fallen, yes, but if the weight weighs nothing, since it's integrated into a balanced rotating system that uses momentum to reposition itself almost free of charge...
See my post “A good lead”.
If you could tell me I'm wrong that would make me happy for once 🙂
The conservation of energy in this concept, let's talk about it !!!

[Sam Peppiatt]

To@,
It's not complicated. The force of gravity is converted directly into mechanical energy-----------Sam

[Tarsier79]

Sam, THX. I think Fletchers point, because I have very similar beliefs to F. is that gravity is conservative, which means that it takes the same amount of energy to restore the weight to the top as you gain from it falling. So for Besslers wheel to exist, there should be a method to harvest or gain or transform extra energy... So when he says he is trying to explain where the energy comes from, he is not referring to (just) gravity.

[Sam Peppiatt]

Tarsier,
Don't listen to me. I say things but I don't know any thing. Today I'm back to zero----------Sam

[Fletcher]

Here is a brief revisit to the single external pendulum driver with lockable one-way swingers for imbalance/torque ..

This time I tracked System Kinetic Energy - Total Energy is always KE + PE , meaning when KE dips PE increases , and when PE dips KE increases , but Total System E is constant - so to recap, the external pendulum driver pumps and dumps the system accelerating and braking the disk in a pattern giving an asymmetric torque - but following the plots of System KE and wheel rpm we see no increase in system Total E which would be seen as an increase in System KE because the pendulum would have to swing faster and faster thru bdc while maximum PE would not vary much - more importantly we are not seeing in the sim the swingers lock out wide to give the whole system the rapid startup accelerations recorded for B's. various wheels ( the litmus test ) - Gregory and I discussed why this might be happening in the sim from 'clunky' locking-out robbing the system of energy, to while lifting not contributing full weight force to the wheel ( floating ) , to the possibility that the program just won't allow an energy gain and is controlled by Conservation of Energy Law n.b. all frictions are OFF which is the ideal sim testing situation ..

I need to do better ! - I need to have that startup acceleration from the asymmetric torque condition, and in this hypothesis it is to come from a near free cost of lifting ( i.e. not brute force leverage lifting ) - the sim is just not showing that - setting aside that the sim program might be the root cause of the problem I still need to do better to get that startup acceleration ..

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[Fletcher]

Now enter the fray the external pendulum driver replaced by the " variator " - this is a spring device ( n.b. springs store PE and give back KE [ not momentum ] ) that also pumps and dumps the wheel disk in a repeating pattern - it was pointless showing the system COM icon with the previous because the pendulum swinging back and forth made that meaningless - with the variator we can now look at the system COM icon and see that it spends its time to the rhs of the axle line i.e. consistent net positive torque territory, albeit small ! - it should be accelerating - but still the System Total KE does not increase and we also don't have the rapid acceleration conditions we need to replicate B's. wheels .. but now it looks to me like the program itself may have more of an input to COE patch-protection ( non-violation protocol ) than I previously thought, along with the same other reasons as the previous sim above ..

I still need to do better ! ..

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