Zeroing in on Bessler's wheel

[Sam Peppiatt]

jb, I suppose I'm paranoid. Right; the critics are dealing the cards. Anyway, like I suggested to Georg, I'm going to try to drive the rollers faster than the wheel. Maybe they will climb up the ring and keep the wheel turning---------------Sam

[Georg Künstler]

Hi Sam,
Please wait to make a replication before you understand how the internal things are moving together.
You are searching a function how the cylindrical weights roll faster, in front.
I have also this function, and I will show some more insights of my own development.

[Sam Peppiatt]

Georg, What can I say; I have to make my own mistakes-----------------Sam

[Sam Peppiatt]

Some details,
Drum diameter 11 inches, roller 5.8 inches, weight 5 pounds. The input drive Assy. will turn the roller 1.2 times faster than the wheel speed. I'm unsure what it will do, if any thing---------------------Sam
ETA Correction. I should have said 1.2 times the normal speed of the roller, which is all ready about twice the rotation of the wheel.

[Sam Peppiatt]

Once again; not working. At this rate I think the monkey has me beat-----------Sam

[Sam Peppiatt]

I'm getting nowhere with my rollers. I've decided to go back to pendulums. Maybe there is a way to use the new input drive to reset them--------------Sam

[johannesbender]

Once again; not working. At this rate I think the monkey has me beat-----------Sam

The monkey's ability to learn from what does not work to smash a nut is quite impressive , fundamentally that is most likely how much of humanity's progression went - human's ability to learn and eliminate negatives from the pool of options such that we can find what works , whilst having an interest in "why" certain things cant work and "why" certain things may possibly work .

So far with this quest , we have learned what does not work and more importantly we have learned "why" , because knowing "why" gives one the ability to determine all other failures , and if we know "why" things don't work then we must be able to determine "why" certain things could possibly work .

The "why" seems more important than the how , yet in this case we still don't know the "how" even after apparently knowing the "why" ,a good question is - why would that be the case .

[Sam Peppiatt]

johannesbender,(jb),
I prefer how to why. Why kind of implies that it can't be done. Anyway, I like how better. How to do it, I feel should be the question to ask. It has been allusive, to say the least.

FWEIW, pendulums still remain one of the better ways to drive a wheel, if a way could be found to reset them. Bessler's clue; " the weights gravitate to the center then climb back up", could be referring to pendulums. They do gravitate to the center,(Bottom Dead Center), and or,(Top Dead Center), then they have to climb back up / Reset. If you like clues that is.

I have learned one thing; for a duty cycle of 50%, half the time driving, half the time resetting, they, the pends., have to reset twice as fast as the wheel is turning. Which makes sense. To do it in half the time they have to move / reset double the speed of the wheel---------------Sam

ETA You are right, jb. Why is part of it. Part of getting it right. Understanding what's wrong.

[Sam Peppiatt]

An Idea,
Pendulums are inherently well suited for 90 degrees of operation. I.E., 90 degrees is there best driving angle and, they can reset in the following 90 degrees. Could The "Great Craftsman Rule" be applied to pendulums? He was talking about quarters of a circle, maybe that's what he meant.

If Bessler was referring to pends., couldn't an interpreter do a better job, if he knew what Bessler was describing---------Sam

[johannesbender]

The issue i have with interpreting the 4 quarters any other way than a distance , for example some interpret it as circular , but a circle can only be divided in to 4 quarters , and only 2 of those 4 quarters can be lift or drop , there cant be 4 quarters of lift or even 4 quarters of drop in an angular measurement while moving in circular motion while the circle is divided in to 4.

[Sam Peppiatt]

jb,
Here's what I'm suggesting. If a pend. drives a wheel for 90 degrees / 1/4 turn, around the 3:00 position, it can easily turn or drive the wheel 4 quarters or one full turn--------Sam

[Tarsier79]

Agreed. A weight can be lifted on your wheel for four quarters, just as a pin near the circumference with a string wound around it can drop a weight for as many turns as you wind it. You can lift a weight comparitively while it drops or vice versa.

Any interpretation of Besslers words could be correct or not. So much so that interpretation is more speculation than fact, more throwing darts while blinfolded than assembling an Ikea coffee table.

[Sam Peppiatt]

If you fail to see the connection; it's fine with me------------Sam

[johannesbender]

jb,
Here's what I'm suggesting. If a pend. drives a wheel for 90 degrees / 1/4 turn, around the 3:00 position, it can easily turn or drive the wheel 4 quarters or one full turn--------Sam

Acceptable logic i can agree with especially if i imagine it at zero losses ,because that's a ratio of angular rotation , and not a measurement of lift and drop in a circular motion of which there cannot be more than 2 quarters of a circle - because bessler mentioned drop and lift and not angular motion , people interpret to much imo to the point where the exact words stop existing in their minds.

[Sam Peppiatt]

So; it was a bad idea. Please forget I mentioned it----------------Sam