It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than trying to solely profit
Moderator: scott
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
I'm glad to be getting this wrapped up so early in the new year!
Robert (The Carpenter's Boy)
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Will be taking time out Thurs. and Friday to build the second system of weights.
I know what to do.
I know what to do.
Robert (The Carpenter's Boy)
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Will use 12, 2.5 lb weights in the second system. These are weight training weights, bought at WalMart.
That will make just the weights on the wheel come in at 90 lbs. total.
I believe the second system will cause what some of you call "anti-torque", to be elininated.
That will make just the weights on the wheel come in at 90 lbs. total.
I believe the second system will cause what some of you call "anti-torque", to be elininated.
Robert (The Carpenter's Boy)
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Robert , I haven't a clue what you are doing. Could you explain what makes you so sure that you have the solution.
Graham
Graham
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
I do believe that Bessler used a minimum of two systems to keep his wheel turning.. So Robert, adding another system to it is a good idea! I hope that system does not cause you grief in other areas though!
I always thought of the "3 Kingdoms" in Besslers crytpic quotes as either, the X, Y, Z axes or 3 different systems in play!
I always thought of the "3 Kingdoms" in Besslers crytpic quotes as either, the X, Y, Z axes or 3 different systems in play!
The limits of the possible can only be defined by going beyond them into the impossible.
Re: re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, t
I cannot do that yet...graham wrote:Robert , I haven't a clue what you are doing. Could you explain what makes you so sure that you have the solution.
Graham
Robert (The Carpenter's Boy)
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
Re: re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, t
I agree whith what you say.SeaWasp wrote:I do believe that Bessler used a minimum of two systems to keep his wheel turning.. So Robert, adding another system to it is a good idea! I hope that system does not cause you grief in other areas though!
I always thought of the "3 Kingdoms" in Besslers crytpic quotes as either, the X, Y, Z axes or 3 different systems in play!
The three kingdoms are: The wheel structure itself
The drive weight system
The anti-"anti-torque" weight system
"...without these, all things come to a standstill."
Occasionally, there is a lot of talk about people making claims of having a working wheel, when really all they have is an untested idea.
When a wheel appears on my website, www.gravitypoweredwheel.com, and the site says that it is a gravity powered wheel, running all by itself....
You had better believe it.
If it was not the truth, then I could be sued for false advertising, since the site is part of my woodworking business, and the wheel will be plainly identified as being invented by my company.
The wheel is the property of my company, as it is proprietary.
Robert (The Carpenter's Boy)
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
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ken_behrendt
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re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
SeaWasp wrote:
Now, I favor the use of a single set of drive weights, each of which can function as its own shifter weight. Remarkably the mechanisms necessary to achieve this effect were far simpler than I anticipated.
Well, Robert, I do hope that your "proprietary" design will somehow be an exception to what I found to be generally true. If so, then I look forward to learning the details of it on your website.
ken
I used (past tense!) to believe the same thing. But, my many CAD models since then have finally convinced me that this is not the way to go. I tried a wide variety of models that used a secondary sets of "shifter" weights to generate motion, mainly lateral and lifting, in the wheel's primary set of drive weights. I eventually came to realize that such systems are unworkable. The secondary system of shifter weights would always seem to produce its own CG on the side of the wheel's axle opposite to the side on which the CG of the drive weights was located. Result...no motion possible.I do believe that Bessler used a minimum of two systems to keep his wheel turning.. So Robert, adding another system to it is a good idea!
Now, I favor the use of a single set of drive weights, each of which can function as its own shifter weight. Remarkably the mechanisms necessary to achieve this effect were far simpler than I anticipated.
Well, Robert, I do hope that your "proprietary" design will somehow be an exception to what I found to be generally true. If so, then I look forward to learning the details of it on your website.
ken
On 7/6/06, I found, in any overbalanced gravity wheel with rotation rate, ω, axle to CG distance d, and CG dip angle φ, the average vertical velocity of its drive weights is downward and given by:
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Ken.. I know that you have researched many different ways in regards to a shifter system. But there a many more way's that you can utilise the benefits of a shifting system which won't adversely affect your COG. The problem with relying on Working model is that you cannot try a z axis shift mechanism unless you model it in a static section view. You then cannot put that into 2D representation of the wheel. The 3D version will allow you to do so, but to learn 3d modelling is a whole new skill which will take another 3d modelling program yet again and the knowledge of the Visual Nastran application.
A good case in point is MT19 where he states in his text, "and if they are not very useful, they are also not harmful most of the time." That to me is implying that he had a set of weights which did work, but were not very helpful on their own..
A good case in point is MT19 where he states in his text, "and if they are not very useful, they are also not harmful most of the time." That to me is implying that he had a set of weights which did work, but were not very helpful on their own..
The limits of the possible can only be defined by going beyond them into the impossible.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
The only thing I'll have time for today and tomorrow is the drilling of some precisely spaced holes in these cast iron weights...
Robert (The Carpenter's Boy)
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Your "company" can not be the inventor of your wheel. An invention requires an inventor. An inventor is a person or a group of people. You may transfer or assign ownership of your invention to your company. Your company may help develop your invention by providing support to you, the inventor. But when you go to the patent office you must state who the person or persons are that invented it.Ralph wrote:, and the wheel will be plainly identified as being invented by my company.
Just trying to help.
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ken_behrendt
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re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
SeaWasp wrote:
Right now, I remain unconvinced that the use of separate shifter weights is the answer. For that reason, I intend to confine my future research efforts to self-shifting mechanisms. These are far simpler and more reliable and one need only be concerned over the location of a CG of a single set of drive weights.
ken
The problem when using a separate set of shifter weights to shift one's primary set of drive weights in a wheel is that, at any time, some of those shifter weights must be dropping vertically with respect to their resting position. This drop is unaffected by whether on considers it to be taking place in the XY plane as depicted in a WM2D model or in the YZ plane of a 3D CAD program. I think that all that will happen when one makes the quantum leap in effort to using the 3D CAD models is that they will discover that it makes no essential difference in the performance of the wheel.But there a many more way's that you can utilise the benefits of a shifting system which won't adversely affect your COG. The problem with relying on Working model is that you cannot try a z axis shift mechanism unless you model it in a static section view.
Right now, I remain unconvinced that the use of separate shifter weights is the answer. For that reason, I intend to confine my future research efforts to self-shifting mechanisms. These are far simpler and more reliable and one need only be concerned over the location of a CG of a single set of drive weights.
ken
On 7/6/06, I found, in any overbalanced gravity wheel with rotation rate, ω, axle to CG distance d, and CG dip angle φ, the average vertical velocity of its drive weights is downward and given by:
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Got the other system's weights drilled this evening, then drilled them some more so they all weigh 1135 grams (+ - 5 grams, the accuracy of my electronic postal scale),
These weigh a lot more than is necessary, but it doesn't matter. They were cheap and readily available.
These weigh a lot more than is necessary, but it doesn't matter. They were cheap and readily available.
Robert (The Carpenter's Boy)
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
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AgingYoung
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re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Keep trucking, Luray Robert. I may be hot on your heels! 
Working Model 2D
[It is] the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings [is] to search out a matter.
[It is] the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings [is] to search out a matter.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Hope you all don't mind me replying to myself so much...!
Anyway, spent three hours with it today preparing for the next big try.
That will probably be at the end of next week.
The motion of the drive weights and how they're connected to each other will not change....only the means of generating the toothpick force will.
robert
Anyway, spent three hours with it today preparing for the next big try.
That will probably be at the end of next week.
The motion of the drive weights and how they're connected to each other will not change....only the means of generating the toothpick force will.
robert
Robert (The Carpenter's Boy)
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.