It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than trying to solely profit
Moderator: scott
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
I don't think that Ralph has tried the version with the magnets yet?
The limits of the possible can only be defined by going beyond them into the impossible.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Jim never built one with magnets.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
SeaWasp,
ovyyus is correct to my knowledge, James neve included magnets in his original design.
I have not tried using magnets nor do I intend too. My goal is to stick to the original as to the best James can describe it. I have two goals in mind, that is to prove that James is good for his word and that it is possible.
I have my version attached to my shop wall and tinker with it now between other projects. I have no intention of admitting defeat yet. You can take me for my word that I will post when its running or I give up on it.
It currently is within a gnats ass of running with rotors weighing 2.7 pounds each. More weight is not the answer as it would only leave the same results. Its all in the equation of getting the ellipse in the right configuration, not unlike Patricks reciprocator.
Ralph
ovyyus is correct to my knowledge, James neve included magnets in his original design.
I have not tried using magnets nor do I intend too. My goal is to stick to the original as to the best James can describe it. I have two goals in mind, that is to prove that James is good for his word and that it is possible.
I have my version attached to my shop wall and tinker with it now between other projects. I have no intention of admitting defeat yet. You can take me for my word that I will post when its running or I give up on it.
It currently is within a gnats ass of running with rotors weighing 2.7 pounds each. More weight is not the answer as it would only leave the same results. Its all in the equation of getting the ellipse in the right configuration, not unlike Patricks reciprocator.
Ralph
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
I've always kinda wondered if maybe jim was Ralph's imaginary friend, (NOT THAT THERE'S ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT).
One of my cousins had one when he was a child, an it kept him from loneliness.
It may be beneficial to have such a thing to bounce ideas off of...!!!
Not!
One of my cousins had one when he was a child, an it kept him from loneliness.
It may be beneficial to have such a thing to bounce ideas off of...!!!
Not!
Robert (The Carpenter's Boy)
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Robert,
What is the problem, wheel not working out as planned, so you take out your frustration by saying Jim was my imaginary friend. (NOT THAT THERE'S ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT).
Well it sounds like to me you are in need on a friend also. One you can spill you pent up emotions to. Thats what friends are for. I consider you a friend so feel free to throw sarcastic remarks at me as much as you wish. I have broad shoulders and a mentality that can consider the source as well as the reasoning. After all I did give your rep bar a green hit, but I see you still only have three.
I do hope that your surmised wheel set back is not to complicated. I say this as you probably would not have taken time for the above statement other wise.
There was a time when I would get frustrated and felt nobody liked me, I would go set on the sidewalk curb and eat worms. Boy! I figured that would show them. But then I found that I did have friends, imaginary and real.
If it makes you feel better to pick on some one then let it be me, I can help, but in return I ask that you leave my imaginary friends out of it. You will find me a good friend to bounce ideas off of, other members certainly have.
And there is no "NOT" implied.
Ralph
What is the problem, wheel not working out as planned, so you take out your frustration by saying Jim was my imaginary friend. (NOT THAT THERE'S ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT).
Well it sounds like to me you are in need on a friend also. One you can spill you pent up emotions to. Thats what friends are for. I consider you a friend so feel free to throw sarcastic remarks at me as much as you wish. I have broad shoulders and a mentality that can consider the source as well as the reasoning. After all I did give your rep bar a green hit, but I see you still only have three.
I do hope that your surmised wheel set back is not to complicated. I say this as you probably would not have taken time for the above statement other wise.
There was a time when I would get frustrated and felt nobody liked me, I would go set on the sidewalk curb and eat worms. Boy! I figured that would show them. But then I found that I did have friends, imaginary and real.
If it makes you feel better to pick on some one then let it be me, I can help, but in return I ask that you leave my imaginary friends out of it. You will find me a good friend to bounce ideas off of, other members certainly have.
And there is no "NOT" implied.
Ralph
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ken_behrendt
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re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Robert...
No, I do not think James is a fictional product of Ralph's mind. I received an email from James several months ago and posted the included photographs on another thread. James is a real live person that claims he once had a running gravity wheel, but that it got lost.
ken
No, I do not think James is a fictional product of Ralph's mind. I received an email from James several months ago and posted the included photographs on another thread. James is a real live person that claims he once had a running gravity wheel, but that it got lost.
ken
On 7/6/06, I found, in any overbalanced gravity wheel with rotation rate, ω, axle to CG distance d, and CG dip angle φ, the average vertical velocity of its drive weights is downward and given by:
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Bill & Ralph... The reason I mentioned the magnets was because of James mention of them in his design.
From here: http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... c&start=80
Ralph did make mention that he was going to stick with James original (unmagnetized) wheel from that topic, and that is why I wrote, 'I don't think that Ralph has tried the version with the magnets yet?'
I was very keen on that idea as I was working on something very similar, but I stopped work on it, cause Working Model keeled the reason for me to continue! I have thought about the magnets though, as that was supposed to be the next stage of evolution of that idea. I also posted up a diagram of my unfinished wheel on that same topic. http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... c&start=96
Now, coming to think of it, I have learned so much since then about wheel dynamics, that I may ressurect the wheel and try some new tricks on it!
From here: http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... c&start=80
Ralph did make mention that he was going to stick with James original (unmagnetized) wheel from that topic, and that is why I wrote, 'I don't think that Ralph has tried the version with the magnets yet?'
I was very keen on that idea as I was working on something very similar, but I stopped work on it, cause Working Model keeled the reason for me to continue! I have thought about the magnets though, as that was supposed to be the next stage of evolution of that idea. I also posted up a diagram of my unfinished wheel on that same topic. http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... c&start=96
Now, coming to think of it, I have learned so much since then about wheel dynamics, that I may ressurect the wheel and try some new tricks on it!
The limits of the possible can only be defined by going beyond them into the impossible.
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ken_behrendt
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re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
SeaWasp...
Your design is an interesting "double ramp" type wheel, but it suffers from the same problem that all one ramp designs have. As soon as the radial sliding weights contact the ramps, counter torques arise that oppose the torque created by the weights on the descending side of the wheel.
It really does not matter if one uses "hard" surface ramps or magnetic repulsion in the long run, that counter torque will arise just the same.
ken
Your design is an interesting "double ramp" type wheel, but it suffers from the same problem that all one ramp designs have. As soon as the radial sliding weights contact the ramps, counter torques arise that oppose the torque created by the weights on the descending side of the wheel.
It really does not matter if one uses "hard" surface ramps or magnetic repulsion in the long run, that counter torque will arise just the same.
ken
On 7/6/06, I found, in any overbalanced gravity wheel with rotation rate, ω, axle to CG distance d, and CG dip angle φ, the average vertical velocity of its drive weights is downward and given by:
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Ken.. Yes I aggree with you about the ramps. But I have learned some other things since then, which could make a difference? (connectivity).
The limits of the possible can only be defined by going beyond them into the impossible.
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ken_behrendt
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re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Yes, getting rid of the ramps can help. If you can figure out a system of ropes and pulleys to aid the positioning of the weights, then so much the better.
However, once the ramps are gone, then you must constantly ask yourself the question of where the CG of the weights is located. Fortunately, WM2D has a nice way for tracking the CG of a system of weighted parts. If you just want to track the weights, then you will have to make the masses of the unloaded wheel and any levers as low as possible. I usually set the masses on any levers to 0.0001 lb and the wheel itself to 0.5 lbs. WM2D treats things such as ropes, rods, and springs as though they have zero mass.
ken
However, once the ramps are gone, then you must constantly ask yourself the question of where the CG of the weights is located. Fortunately, WM2D has a nice way for tracking the CG of a system of weighted parts. If you just want to track the weights, then you will have to make the masses of the unloaded wheel and any levers as low as possible. I usually set the masses on any levers to 0.0001 lb and the wheel itself to 0.5 lbs. WM2D treats things such as ropes, rods, and springs as though they have zero mass.
ken
On 7/6/06, I found, in any overbalanced gravity wheel with rotation rate, ω, axle to CG distance d, and CG dip angle φ, the average vertical velocity of its drive weights is downward and given by:
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
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james kelly
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re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
FRIENDS; I did indeed have a running moter. Several different ones that I built of various demensions, also ran well. I am currently working on a magnetic motor for my younger brother. It takes less than a toothpicks prod to make it run at 70 rpm for about ten minutes. However it does not run as I want it to. I am also working on one that is Ralph's idea that shows much promise. Both of them will soon be reality. I can not work outside as yet, because of my health.Small ones up to 36 inches in diameter , I can build in my computer room. I will be sure and announce one way or the other of progress. I do not believe that any of you know the result of going into cardiac aresst and being out for several minutes, but there are time periods that you have no recollection of, not like they show in movie stories. jim kelly
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Jim's claimed working design seems to be an already known ramp design - he actually posted the patent and said his wheel was the same.
Putting it all together, and reading between the lines with Ralph's posts... Jim's claim of success is based on a very specific ramp curvature applied to the already know design.
I fail to see how any 'normal' ramp curvature shape could solve the problem. Perhaps it's a more unusual shape, like sawtooth shaped, where the weight is made to experience free-fall periodically during it's ramp transition? ... or whatever?
Jim, you're success wasn't just wishful thinking was it?
Putting it all together, and reading between the lines with Ralph's posts... Jim's claim of success is based on a very specific ramp curvature applied to the already know design.
I fail to see how any 'normal' ramp curvature shape could solve the problem. Perhaps it's a more unusual shape, like sawtooth shaped, where the weight is made to experience free-fall periodically during it's ramp transition? ... or whatever?
Jim, you're success wasn't just wishful thinking was it?
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james kelly
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re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
No, Bill, I have great memory of the various operational ones. Of course there were several that befuddled me. I incountered some of the problem that we now have, but I can not remember the solution. It is presently very close, but no cigar. I think that perhaps working here in my computer room on small models, as I did on the first ones, I will recall the lost info. There is very little friction., but it is not yet a self starter or runner. jim kelly
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
I think that James did make mention of his design requiring a very specific gradient for the weights to follow. From his post in his topic:
James... Have you been able to get your brothers wheel turning for 10 minutes at 70 rpm? I am impressed!
That other addition I think he was reffering to using magnets?the unit I am building at this time has eight 15 pound weights. what must occur is to keep the acceleration of the lift ramps proper. Just as I did when I ground cams for my race cars. Lift and timiming are important, but the rate of lift is also of great importance. then with another addition you can make the weight on the lift side zero. jim kelly
James... Have you been able to get your brothers wheel turning for 10 minutes at 70 rpm? I am impressed!
The limits of the possible can only be defined by going beyond them into the impossible.
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james kelly
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re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Here is some more: If I didn't run the rails or dragsters.If I didn't build the small models of the ppm motor. If I didn't design and build my own fuel injection. If I didn't build the chasis, the wheels, the steering,the axles,etc. It sure was one hell of a dream. Oh yes, I also built my own plane, a "stitz play boy." jim kelly