The Bessler Curse

A Bessler, gravity, free-energy free-for-all. Registered users can upload files, conduct polls, and more...

Moderator: scott

Post Reply
User avatar
jim_mich
Addict
Addict
Posts: 7467
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2003 12:02 am
Location: Michigan
Contact:

re: The Bessler Curse

Post by jim_mich »

ken wrote: The only way out of this predicament that I can see is that...
This is wherein lies your problem. You only see one (wrong in my opinion) way rather than looking for other ways. You have become fixated upon your one way wherein mass gets converted to energy.

Let me explain another way. This is my belief. I only mention it casually from time to time. I don't try to proselyte this idea every chance I get. I believe very strongly that there is an ether energy. This ether energy flows in all directions. When it gets blocked by the earth's mass we observe the reduced pressure as gravity. This ether energy presses down harder from outer space than it does through the earth. This is a pressure just like a steady wind is a pressure. All we need to do is learn how to harness the pressure difference. The ether energy pressure difference will provide all the excess energy needed to turn our wheels, just like wind turning windmills. We don't need any weird theory of rest mass being converted to energy.

As a side note this same ether energy is also the cause of inertia and a lot of other things. It is what all of our physical world is created from.

Image
User avatar
ken_behrendt
Addict
Addict
Posts: 3487
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:45 am
Location: new jersey, usa
Contact:

re: The Bessler Curse

Post by ken_behrendt »

We don't need any weird theory of rest mass being converted to energy.
Well, Jim, I am sure that there are a lot of orthodox physicists out there that would say, based on the Michelson-Morley experiment, that ether does not exist! However, I think Einstein got it right when he said that that experiment did not really disprove its existence, only that it could be considered non-existent since it's presence could not be detected experimentally.

Jim, I am not going to label your belief in etheric energies as suitable for porcine bath water, but I think my approach is more consistent with the concepts that emerged from relativity theory during the early 20th century.

Your approach reminds me of a model for a perpetual motion wheel once advance by Newton. He believed that gravity was due to a "pressure" exerted upon objects by minute, invisible particles that rained down from space toward the the centers of all masses. He proposed a wheel with weights that would have one side (the ascending side) covered with a hypothetical shielding material that would block the impact of the incoming gravity particles on one side of the wheel. The other side would then continue to feel the impacts, have weight, and perpetually rotate.

Since you suggest that a gravity wheel would be turned by incoming etheric energies, then a wheel operating by your model should stop if it was fully enclosed in a container that could shield it from all such energies. My model would, however, allow such a wheel to continue to turn. I've depicted the situation in the sketch attached.


ken
Attachments
I still like my model better...
I still like my model better...
On 7/6/06, I found, in any overbalanced gravity wheel with rotation rate, ω, axle to CG distance d, and CG dip angle φ, the average vertical velocity of its drive weights is downward and given by:

Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
User avatar
jim_mich
Addict
Addict
Posts: 7467
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2003 12:02 am
Location: Michigan
Contact:

re: The Bessler Curse

Post by jim_mich »

Ken, your hypothetical gravity shield is hypothetically impossible in a world created from ether energy. Without ether energy, matter ceases to exist. Matter is created from standing waves of ether energy. If you were to completely block the ether energy the standing waves would collapse and matter would no longer be matter.

Ether energy is polychromatic. That is it consists of many vibrational frequencies. It may be that only certain frequencies produce gravity. In that case a gravity shield that stops only a single frequency might be hypothetically possible though I doubt it. I'm by no means an ether energy expert. The majority of this planet rejected the ether concept based on the Michelson-Morley experiments. That does not mean that the majority is right.

Stop and think. Our whole physics world pretty much makes sense until you get to mysterious action at a distance involving gravity, light, electromagnetic radiation, etc. that cry out for a means to propagate. We should not reject something simply because it fails to act in a certain way that we expect. Michelson-Morley expected that ether would be stationary as the earth passes through it. But ether energy is NOT a stationary fluid. It is very energetic multi-frequency complex flow of something that we have no name for other than ether. This is why I add the word energy, to differentiate "ether energy" from the older concept of a plain stagnant "ether".

It seems to me that Newton had a better concept of gravity than today's physicists that follow Einstein.

Image
User avatar
Joel Wright
Enthusiast
Enthusiast
Posts: 220
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 4:43 am
Location: U.S.A.
Contact:

re: The Bessler Curse

Post by Joel Wright »

I'm curious Jim,does the following fit your theory of ether......The state of the art in physics - our deepest current understanding of the world - is embodied in the so-called Standard Model, in which all matter and forces are accounted for by an astonishingly few types of particles (see Sky & Telescope - December 1987, page 582). Six quarks and six leptons make up all possible forms of matter. In practice just two of the quarks (the up and down) and one lepton (the electron) account for everything in the world except for a few whiffs of exotica known only to high-energy physicists. The 12 particles of matter (and their 12 corresponding particles of antimatter, or antiparticles) are acted upon by "messenger particles" that carry all the known forces. The photon mediates the electromagnetic force, including all the familiar chemical and structural forces around us on Earth. The members of the gluon family carry the strong force that binds neutrons and protons together in atomic nuclei. The W', W-, and Zo mediate the weak nuclear force, and the as-yet-undiscovered graviton is believed to carry the force of gravity.
Work with gravity and gravity will work for you.There are more than two sides to a wheel.
User avatar
Jonathan
Addict
Addict
Posts: 2453
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 6:29 am
Location: Tucson, Az

re: The Bessler Curse

Post by Jonathan »

Ken, I've explained to you several times that you don't understand relativity. Rest masses are not known to change under any circumstances, which is why they are listed in tables of particle properties.
The standard model emerged from quantum physics, which is at odds with the theory of relativity. They can't both be right, so I wouldn't be concerned with fitting to either of them.
Disclaimer: I reserve the right not to know what I'm talking about and not to mention this possibility in my posts. This disclaimer also applies to sentences I claim are quotes from anybody, including me.
User avatar
jim_mich
Addict
Addict
Posts: 7467
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2003 12:02 am
Location: Michigan
Contact:

re: The Bessler Curse

Post by jim_mich »

Joel, I'm not a quantum physicist so I'm not that familiar with their data on atomic partials. Ether energy theory does not change the characteristic of matter, instead it adds reason. Different particles are bundles of standing wave ether energy vibrations.

This would be a whole new field of study for scientist.

Image
rlortie
Addict
Addict
Posts: 8475
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 6:20 pm
Location: Stanfield Or.

re: The Bessler Curse

Post by rlortie »

Where does the once popular "string theory" fit into all this? Do not claim to know anything about ether or quantum, but was just wondering.

Ralph
User avatar
Michael
Addict
Addict
Posts: 3065
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 6:10 pm
Location: Victoria

re: The Bessler Curse

Post by Michael »

Ralph string theory has too many holes in in. When one end is mathematically patched up a problem occurs somewhere else. It's actually been disregarded for many years except for it's admirers.
AgingYoung
Aficionado
Aficionado
Posts: 761
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 4:44 am
Location: Houston, TX

re: The Bessler Curse

Post by AgingYoung »

The Bessler wheel was a 'simple' mechanical device that was powered by nothing more than gravity. I do believe that this is the year.

Gene
Working Model 2DImage
[It is] the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings [is] to search out a matter.
User avatar
ken_behrendt
Addict
Addict
Posts: 3487
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:45 am
Location: new jersey, usa
Contact:

re: The Bessler Curse

Post by ken_behrendt »

Jonathan wrote:
Rest masses are not known to change under any circumstances, which is why they are listed in tables of particle properties.
Well, in the later literature of relativity theory, the rest mass of an object was referred to as the "invariant mass", however I do not think this meant that it could not change in value. By "invariant", physicists were trying to imply that the rest mass was not observer dependent. In other words, every outside observer, regardless of the state of motion of his reference frame with respect to the object, would measure the same rest mass for it. If that rest mass underwent a change in value, however, then all of the outside observers would measure the same change.

Anyway, I think in my "...Update" thread on the Community Buzz forum I reproduced a calculation that showed how a metal weight falling from infinity to the Earth's surface would, indeed, lose a minute portion of its rest mass in the process as that mass was converted into the kinetic energy that the object displayed.

The subjects of relativity theory and quantum physics can certainly be difficult to study and lead to some confusion. From what studying of these topics I have done, I learned that wherever one has energy, one has mass and wherever one has mass one has energy. From this it follows that when one extracts energy from a system that system must lose some of its mass. And, whenever one adds energy to a system, that system must gain some mass.

Ordinarily, the changes in mass associated with a change in the energy content of an object are so minute that we can ignore them in most calculations. For example, when one, say, compresses a spring, that spring's energy content is raised and it does gain a slight amount of mass. On the other hand, when a nuclear reaction takes place that releases energy into the environment, one will find that the masses of the nuclear products formed will be slightly less than the masses of the nuclear reactants before the reaction takes place. I think I read somewhere that when an atomic bomb detonates, about 1/10th of 1% of the critical mass of its U235 is lost and converted into gamma radiation which then stimulates the air around the detonation to emit the many other forms of electromagnetic radiation the blast creates.


When Gene states:
The Bessler wheel was a 'simple' mechanical device that was powered by nothing more than gravity.
I can agree with the first part...the wheel was "simple". However, I think it is confusing to say that the device was "powered" by gravity. That implies that gravity is somehow the "fuel" that Bessler's wheels used. I like to think that a gravity wheel's weights depend upon the presence of a local gravity field (with the proper orientation with respect to the weights) in order to allow the wheel's mechanisms to slowly, but continuously, convert the rest masses of the device's weights into the kinetic energy that the wheel displays and which it can output to its environment to perform useful work.


ken
On 7/6/06, I found, in any overbalanced gravity wheel with rotation rate, ω, axle to CG distance d, and CG dip angle φ, the average vertical velocity of its drive weights is downward and given by:

Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
rlortie
Addict
Addict
Posts: 8475
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 6:20 pm
Location: Stanfield Or.

re: The Bessler Curse

Post by rlortie »

A rolling rock gathers no moss. So it is not going to get heavier. It will however get lighter by friction and what I call alluvial erosion. No different than the tread on an auto tire wears out as it performs work.

I like to keep things on a level that I can understand. LOL

Ralph
User avatar
jim_mich
Addict
Addict
Posts: 7467
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2003 12:02 am
Location: Michigan
Contact:

re: The Bessler Curse

Post by jim_mich »

Ken,
If I hear you pontificate(*) one more time about converting rest mass to energy or about a gravity wheel being NOT "powered" by gravity, I'm going to punch your little red button! I've heard it enough times already!

Image

(*) talk in a dogmatic and pompous manner.
User avatar
Jonathan
Addict
Addict
Posts: 2453
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 6:29 am
Location: Tucson, Az

re: The Bessler Curse

Post by Jonathan »

Unfortunately I must agree with Jim. I hate to do it because you're so enthusiastic, but on the other hand, you just have no idea what you're talking about and it's all I can do to be as 'nice' as I've been. I already explained to you how that math was not only done incorrectly, but would also be meaningless had it been proper.
>By "invariant", physicists were trying to imply that the rest mass was not observer dependent.<
You've said before that rest mass increases as speed increases, but speed as measured by whom?
>I learned that wherever one has energy, one has mass<
What about light, and maybe neutrinos?
>For example, when one, say, compresses a spring, that spring's energy content is raised and it does gain a slight amount of mass.<
No it doesn't, where do you get this stuff?
Disclaimer: I reserve the right not to know what I'm talking about and not to mention this possibility in my posts. This disclaimer also applies to sentences I claim are quotes from anybody, including me.
rlortie
Addict
Addict
Posts: 8475
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 6:20 pm
Location: Stanfield Or.

re: The Bessler Curse

Post by rlortie »

The empirical mans method of testing this.

place a compression spring on a scale and weigh it. Then do the same with a weight. Total these two figures. Now put the spring back on the scale and set the weight on top compressing it. Does the scale show a higher value. If not then the spring did not gain in mass.

Ralph
bluesgtr44
Devotee
Devotee
Posts: 1970
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 8:31 pm
Location: U.S.A.

re: The Bessler Curse

Post by bluesgtr44 »

So....if I take a "C" clamp and a coiled spring....weigh it on a scale together...without having the spring compressed, record that value. Now, I take the "C" clamp and use it to compress the spring and then weigh that...I will see an increase in weight? (W=M x G)

Ken, please tell me we are missing an element...like it has to be rotating...something like that...


Steve
Finding the right solution...is usually a function of asking the right questions. -A. Einstein
Post Reply