It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than trying to solely profit

[ken_behrendt]

Ralph asked:

I was questioning how he could get a positive static weight measurement on both sides of an alleged off center weight arrangement.

I'm not 100% sure of this, but I think Robert was not testing the finished wheel. He would complete one of its 12 mechanisms and then make measurements on that one mechanism as he incrementally rotated the wheel around in a 360° circle. Then he would add a second mechanism and repeat this process. IF this is the case, then, without actually seeing what configurations he had on the wheel at the time of each test, we can not make accurate judgements about what its net torque, when finished, would be.


ken

[rks1878]

Actually, I've thought about it and it would be better if my rep bar stayed at "none" or worse.

That way, when I get done with my wheel and start to show it off, I can point to this site from mine at www.gravitypoweredwheel.com and say something like, "see how the highly respected stuffed shirts dealt with the most creative and driven thinker over there, the one that actually finally discovered how to do it? I bet Bessler had a time with that mentality. Etc., etc."

Ken excluded. Ken, UR OK. King, Otto and Reclina think so too...

Still hammering away with the arrangement that requires the toothpick force to keep going. I would like to show the last two tries that didn't make it, but a picture would show too much of how the drive weights are. And we know how everybody is, from the top down about holding their cards close don't we?

Can't remember who said it, but I think the three kingdoms are the x,y and Z axises(sp) too now.

[Patrick]

Robert,
I hope you discover a working wheel but if you do, wouldn't it be better to thank people for providing lots of contributing/inspirational ideas in the first place? If you get a working wheel, wouldn't it be better to have other enthusiasts support your work rather than compete against them?
Also what is the benefit to talk about the toothpick force if others do not know what it means? Why not post a refernce photo so people can get a general idea of your work?

[coylo]

"see how the highly respected stuffed shirts dealt with the most creative and driven thinker over there,

I'm quite happy with the way I'm treated by my fellow peers thank you very much....hehee!

[rlortie]

Kind of makes your signiture stand out doesn't it Coylo :o)

[bluesgtr44]

Still chuckling over the "torque seeker" post in the other thread. Rob, is your voice maybe an octave higher now that the "ball room" has been modified? LMAO....

Rob, just say "too much info..." if I am digging too much, not a problem, I respect that it is your idea and project.

I am thinking that the toothpick force you need has to be able to remain synchronized with the weights. As the speed of the wheel increases, the positions of the weights are moving more outwards and the toothpick force has to remain synchronized with this movement. So, not only do you have to arrange a constant applied force to shift the weights, you also have to keep it in alignment as the wheel speeds up. Would you say that is a correct assumption?

If not, then I would assume that the amount of initial toothpick force starts at the maximum and that once the wheels rotation reached a point, then the toothpick mechanism was at its maximum shift point. If this makes any sense at all....


Steve

[rks1878]

Robert,
If you get a working wheel, wouldn't it be better to have other enthusiasts support your work rather than compete against them?
Also what is the benefit to talk about the toothpick force if others do not know what it means? Why not post a refernce photo so people can get a general idea of your work?

Maybe after I get it, but not before. There's nothing like fighting, to open up all the brain cell pathways so I can see farther. Fighting to me is another man's nicotine.

I want to see Sir Isaac Newton standing on my shoulder when I turn to look at my working wheel!

I am thinking that the toothpick force you need has to be able to remain synchronized with the weights. As the speed of the wheel increases, the positions of the weights are moving more outwards and the toothpick force has to remain synchronized with this movement. So, not only do you have to arrange a constant applied force to shift the weights, you also have to keep it in alignment as the wheel speeds up. Would you say that is a correct assumption?

Steve, yes it has to remain in sync with the weights. Speed makes no difference, just need a small force applied at one spot, one at a time.

This one spot force is something Ken maybe will remember that I've been working on for a long time. Left it for awhile, now I need it again.

I can't say what the motion of the drive weights is. Just that once this small force is applied, the drive weight "crashes" and creates a huge imbalance which is more that enough to advance to the next weight position.


robert

[ken_behrendt]

Robert...

Thanks for the compliment...I was happy to read that a king approved of me! 8^D

Anyway, it sounds like you are very close to having something operational. If you are only a "toothpick's worth of force" away, then maybe some additional spring mechanism could be used to provide it at the correct moment. If it was self-activating, then it would automatically increase its speed of operation as wheel speed increased.

Good luck with the new website and I'm sure many here will be keeping an eye on it.

If you ever want to post some photos of what you are working on here, then you can use a trick that I initially used on my attachments before I decided to "go public". Simply open the photo with a program like MS Paint and then use the appropriate tool to black out only those parts of the wheel that you do not want to reveal yet. In this way, people would, at least, get an idea of the size and shape of what you are working on.

I think, in a sense, this is what Bessler did with everybody back in his day. His pamphlets contain only exterior views of his devices and those who came to one of his exhibitions would encounter an oiled cloth that obscured the interior of the wheels. But, one can show a lot without having to reveal all...


ken

[AgingYoung]

Lights up a cigarette and aims my pointy little Chris Romero at Robert's backside. Don't slow up, Bud.

Glad to see you back, Robert.

Gene

[Fletcher]

To provide a "tooth pick" worth of force at the right time try this ...

Use a counter weight hanging below the axle. To the counter weight attach an arm that extends to where ever you want the force applied. At the end of the arm attach a small spring loaded cam.

As the wheel rotates the counter weight & therefore the cam stay stationary in space. The catch or latch that needs to be released runs up against the cam which deflects the latch (by a "tooth pick" amount of force) releasing the weight.

[rks1878]

Fletcher,

This method I tried first awhile back since the most logical thing that seems to be needed, is for the wheel to basically "ram" another object.

I tried the way you suggest first, then with the arm fastened to the concrete floor.

It was always too early to strike or too late. Never just right.

Too complex.

Nothing doing...

Ken,
The second set of weights used as shifters all added up to zero net torque. While Torque Seeker and I saw the sum of the measured forces seem to add up, as more on the descending side, the net torque baby was stillborn, once out in the open.

I still have plenty of ideas. The one motion I saw yesterday looks very promising.

Actually, I've departed from the Bessler clues, and have what I've got now, from thinking on my own. If this try goes, the wheel will have to be a bit thicker than Bessler's. Unless, he accomplished what I'm attempting now, by putting it inside his hollow axles and using hundreds of small weights on the perimeter to drive the wheel.

robert

[Fletcher]

You can appreciate Robert that we have nothing to go on so its guess work, however, it is difficult to imagine that the timing in any mechanical device is THAT critical that the tooth pick force arrives to early or to late but never deploys exactly on time ?

If you have already tried an independently mounted activation lever that the wheel intercepts in its travels & you still can't get the timing right then 2 thoughts come to mind.

First, the device is way to critical for a mechanical arrangement & you should investigate attaching a battery powered solenoid release just to test whether the concept in general works. If it does then you can set about working on a fault proof gravity activated mechanical release with precision timing.

Secondly, the other scenario is that the weights are moving in a dynamic fashion & are never ready for release at the exact same position each time around (hard as that is to imagine) & that is why you can't organise the timing. If that's the case probably can't help you there.

[rks1878]

Fletcher,
That's what the point does. It travels about three inches relative to the wheel, and the TP force is applied through that distance...

robert

[rks1878]

Been away for awhile.

Will be back at it tomorrow with the WHEEL.

This try with the idea that makes the machine thicker than Bessler's, borrows several parts from a machine used more in war than in peace...

[rks1878]

Ordered a part from Boston Gear today.

cost: $156.23

robert