Apologia Poetica Translation

[SeaWasp]

Ralph.. When all else fails.. Just google it! lol! The German equivalent is gewährte It also means in English, deigned, imparted, vouchsafed, granted.

http://odge.de/englisch-deutsch/vouchsafed.html

http://dict.die.net/vouchsafed/

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)

Vouchsafe \Vouch*safe"\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. Vouchsafed; p.
pr. & vb. n. Vouchsafing.] [Vouch + safe, that is, to vouch
or answer for safety.]
1. To condescend to grant; to concede; to bestow.

If ye vouchsafe that it be so. --Chaucer.

Shall I vouchsafe your worship a word or two?
--Shak.

It is not said by the apostle that God vouchsafed to
the heathens the means of salvation. --South.

2. To receive or accept in condescension. [Obs.] --Shak

[fAtnhapy]

Good tip Wasp,
I googled up "vienersliden" and it came up "vasoline" ~! :0)
fAt

[ken_behrendt]

To me the word "vouchsafe" means to assure the reliability of someone or something...


ken

[Stewart]

In another topic PIMAN said:

"As the first line in his pageant of words," [Greed is an evil root]

I just thought I should point out that is not the first line of his 'pageant of words' but the third, the first two lines are often overlooked for some reason:

Ein Gärtner sey kein Zaun-Abbrecher
Ein Wagner wolle Bohren Löcher
Der Geitz ist eine Wurtzel Böß'
.
.

It might be because its a bit difficult to translate due to the poetic nature of the thing. I'm struggling to get it right...
It could be:

A gardener is no fence-breaker
A wainwright wants to [bore/drill] holes

However, I think 'wolle' is the imperative form of 'er will' (the verb being 'wollen' to want/will). 'sei kein' could also be imperative and mean "don't".

Anyway, its clear that Bessler is actually refering to Gärtner and Wagner. He's also referring to Borlach, and I'll exlain how in my next post.

I found this information about the surname Zaunbrecher:
German: nickname for a violent man, from Middle High German zunbrüchel, literally ‘fence breaker’, or an altered form of Zahnbrecher, from Zahn ‘tooth’ + Brecher, ‘breaker’.

Stewart

[SeaWasp]

Stewart.. I hate to state the obvious, but don't you think that Bessler may have been talking about "Andreas Gärtner", and "Christian Wagner"?

So rather than "Gardner" as you suggested, he may have been implying Gärtner the person, and Wagner the person rather than "Wainwright"

I think that if you look at the translation from the names point of view, it starts to jump out much more clearly!

Spiros.

[Stewart]

Stewart.. I hate to state the obvious, but don't you think that Bessler may have been talking about "Andreas Gärtner", and "Christian Wagner"?

Yes, that's obviously the case. I was trying to point out that their names do have meanings and that Bessler was playing with the double meaning. If you look at my post I did say:

Anyway, its clear that Bessler is actually refering to Gärtner and Wagner.

Stewart

[SeaWasp]

Stewart.. Oops! Yes you did!.. My mistake!

[bluesgtr44]

I really admire the translation work you do, Stewart. Cudos, Amigo!

This is just pure curiosity...on page 252 of DT, there is that emblem...it appears to be his signature forwards and backwards, but...the reverse image ends with "th"...not "re". Any ideas? Everytime I look at that it just bugs me...


Steve

[Stewart]

Thanks Steve.

Check out this topic of John's:

http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... slers+logo

The word that is backwards on his emblem is 'RATH' which means councillor (drop the H for the modern equivalent). Bessler was given the job of Councillor of Commerce by Karl. I think John is probably right about the D.M.M.p.M meaning something along the lines of Doctor of Medicine, Mathematician, inventor of Perpetual Motion. Have a look at the text under the first portrait of Bessler in DT (vase, skull, book). The title he gives himself there has very similar initials.

All the best
Stewart

[bluesgtr44]

...Ahhhh, a bit before my time on this forum. Thanks Stewart, makes sense...


Steve

[John Collins]

I returned to the comments on the so-called Xs, but which as Stewart has explained, are simply an abbreviation for 'et cetera' and I remembered my puzzlement at his assertion that the symbols stood for 'rc' and were recognised
as the abbreviation for 'et cetera'.

See http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=21756 scroll down about ten posts.

I fully support his conclusion that they are abbreviations for 'et cetera', even though this does not explain their overwhelming use by Bessler in his Apologia Poetica.

It is quite understandable that Stewart concluded that the first past of the abbreviation symbol, (see above) stood for the letter 'r'.

Tironian notes (notae Tironianae) is a system of shorthand said to have been invented by Cicero's scribe Marcus Tullius Tiro, but it was still in use during 17th and 18th centuries and in particular in blackletter texts
(especially in German printing) it was used in the abbreviation for etc, still throughout the 19th century.

The Tironian "et" can look very similar to an 'r rotunda', a particular glyph for the letter 'r', depending on the typeface.

Apparently the 'r rotunda' is carefully restricted in its use, appearing only in the middle of a word or at the end, but never as the first letter. The foreshortened letter 'r' was useful for typesetting when space was at a premium
and it could be placed after certain letters which had a curved surface against which the glyph could be placed, to complete the letter 'r'.

I emailed an expert on the subject and he confirmed, what seems logical, that it was based on a Tironian note glyph for the letter 'e' and, with the letter 'c', only used as an abbreviation for 'et cetera'.
So for the above abbreviation read 'ec' not 'rc'.

JC[/img]

[Stewart]

The Tironian "et" can look very similar to an 'r rotunda', a particular glyph for the letter 'r', depending on the typeface.

I've compared all occurrences of the "round/rotunda r" character used as an 'r' in words in AP with the characters used in the 'etc's and if there is a difference then it's imperceivable, and it seems unlikely the typesetter had a separate piece of type just for use in etc.

However, you are right that when it comes to 'etc', that symbol does represent the Tironian 'et'. It's a specific use case and it's not found anywhere else in AP representing 'et'. All other occurrences represent an 'r'.

So for the above abbreviation read 'ec' not 'rc'.

Not quite John, the first symbol is the Tironian 'et' as you've just described, so it reads 'etc' not 'ec' or 'rc'!

Anyway, the point being, as I tried to point out long ago, is that the characters represent 'etc' and are not 'x's, but thanks for the post as that added refinement is now a perfect fit.

All the best
Stewart

[John Collins]

Thanks for the clarification Stewart. It was just a little niggle that I wanted to clear up.

JC

[johannesbender]

I totally agree with Stewart , here is the most obvious demonstration of why I agree.

http://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/%26c.

now look at the end of the text on the left and the end of the text on the right wich shows the same thing in different fonts "etc"..

jb

[John Collins]

Not sure what your point is johannes, the text on the left is in German hence the use of the Fraktur 'etc' and on the right it is in Latin therefore the use of the Latin equivalent &.

JC