Osama's Message to America!
Moderator: scott
re: Osama's Message to America!
Well maybe we shouldn't imprison criminals either. Just because they stole, raped, murdered or maimed before doesn't mean they will in the future. We should just forgive and forget.
And why don't we start giving more aid to some of these poor countries. They're starving in many places. All they have is sand and petroleum.
And why don't we start giving more aid to some of these poor countries. They're starving in many places. All they have is sand and petroleum.
- ken_behrendt
- Addict
- Posts: 3487
- Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:45 am
- Location: new jersey, usa
- Contact:
re: Osama's Message to America!
Well, the western media seems to be doing some "back peddling" now. It seems that, when it comes to the violence of the recent muslim protests against "symbols" of the west such as embassies, restaurants, etc., the violence was mainly confined to countries like Syria and Iran and was subtly promoted by their anti-west governments. The vast majority of protests throughout the rest of the muslim world only involved protest rallies and marches that did not involve violence.
But, most people will only remember the initial reporting of these protests that leave one with the false impression that all muslims are angry with the USA and can not wait to get an opportunity to express that anger with violence.
I think that better and more balanced reporting of news events coupled with an effort to seek the opinions of others will go a long way toward healing the rift that is forming between the muslim world and the west. If we fail to do this, then it will only make the missions of the Osama's of this world easier to accomplish.
ken
But, most people will only remember the initial reporting of these protests that leave one with the false impression that all muslims are angry with the USA and can not wait to get an opportunity to express that anger with violence.
I think that better and more balanced reporting of news events coupled with an effort to seek the opinions of others will go a long way toward healing the rift that is forming between the muslim world and the west. If we fail to do this, then it will only make the missions of the Osama's of this world easier to accomplish.
ken
On 7/6/06, I found, in any overbalanced gravity wheel with rotation rate, ω, axle to CG distance d, and CG dip angle φ, the average vertical velocity of its drive weights is downward and given by:
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
re: Osama's Message to America!
This recent article should be of interest as we all have some understanding of physics and gravity.
http://mujca.com/jonesphysics.htm
BYUÂ’s Dr. Steven Jones Blows the Roof off a Utah Auditorium
by Philip Sherman Gordon
On Wednesday, February 1, a quiet, “churchy-looking” gentleman in a white shirt and tie walked into a packed auditorium on the campus of Utah Valley State College and electrified the room like a rock star. The 150-seat auditorium was filled to capacity, with every seat occupied, and people sitting in the aisles from the stage floor to the back of the room. Video cameras on tripods lined the back row. Two documentary-film crews were in attendance, in addition to the school’s camera crew, and various independent journalists. Seven “spill-over” rooms, with seating for 40-50 each, were also filled to capacity. On this very conservative campus (in the most conservative county in the most conservative state in the union), where community leaders pulled out all the stops in 2004 to prevent Michael Moore from speaking as part of his anti-Bush, pro-Kerry “Slacker Uprising Tour,” Dr. Steven Jones, this pious professor from the Mormon Church-owned Brigham Young University, calmly, gently, gave a simple physics lesson on the collapse of the World Trade Center buildings, the implications of which awed the audience with a sense of world-historical significance, and implied an indictment of the present administration so utterly devastating that it made Moore’s Fahrenheit 9/11 look like a Bush apologia.
Dr. Jones argues that the physics behind the governmentÂ’s explanation of the collapse of the Twin Towers on September 11 do not make sense, and that a better (and perhaps only) explanation for their collapse was that they were demolished, exactly the way structural engineers bring down large buildings, by pre-positioned explosive devices set off in precise sequences. He argues that the 650 degree Celsius temperature of burning jet fuel would not have been hot enough to even bend the steel girders of the WTC Towers, let alone to melt or evaporate them, as recovered beams indicate. And even if it was hot enough to evaporate the steel, the towers should not have collapsed as they did, pancaking so perfectly into their own footprints. On the rare times when such structures have failed (always due to earthquakes), they have toppled over sideways. The towers would have had to have been perfectly sliced, at every point along a horizontal plane at exactly the same instant, for something even resembling a pancaking effect to occur. And even if they did somehow pancake perfectly into their own footprints due to a structural failure, they would not have done it in the time it took for them to collapse, falling at essentially the speed of an apple dropped from the top of one of the towers, with nothing between it and the ground but thin air. The steel and concrete in the floors that collapsed should have taken some measurable time to break, and thus slowed the collapse somewhat as it unfolded. And even if it did collapse, at super speed, phwack phwack phwack, floor by floor, as fast as an apple falling through the air, impelled by the weight of the decapitated structure above it, its solid steel frame severed like a head by a flaming guillotine, that does not explain the molten steel seen at the Ground Zero clean-up site many days after the event. What could have caused such heat? asked Professor Jones.
And on it went, point by point, for almost two hours. Nothing about the physics of “what we know” about 9/11 seemed to add up. And all that’s not to mention the mysterious collapse of the forgotten WTC-7, the third steel-frame building that imploded due to fire, not only that day, but in the history of architectural design--the building that was not hit by a plane, that was surrounded by other buildings equally impacted but structurally undamaged by the collapse of the towers, that, with no jet fuel or violent impact, but allegedly due to a small number of scattered “debris fires,” collapsed, pancaking perfectly into its own footprint, looking exactly like video images of buildings being demolished by pre-positioned explosive devices. Playing the one available video of WTC-7 collapsing at slow speed, Dr. Jones used his laser pointer to indicate the explosive “squibs” clearly seen shooting their way up the sides of the building as it collapsed from the top center down. He showed still images of similar micro-explosions on the sides of the Twin Towers, with steel beams clearly visible, ejected out of the sides of the buildings, ahead of the dust, blown out before the above portions collapsed.
It is a devastating presentation, and one could feel the disequilibrium of 150 minds reeling at once. The defining moment of contemporary American experience suddenly lost its definition. What is the meaning of 9/11? What really happened that day? If these things are true, the implications clearly point to some kind of “inside job” involving the government of the United States of America. (The Department of Defense, the FBI, and the CIA all had offices in the mysteriously collapsed WTC-7. Is it reasonable that outside terrorists could have infiltrated that building and filled it with explosives? ) If the WTC was brought down by pre-positioned explosive devices, somehow facilitated and covered up by the government, it would be the most audacious conspiracy in human history. When before have so many people been so spectacularly bamboozled, with so much death and destruction, and such massive implications for geo-politics? Never, that’s when.
And that is the problem Dr. Jones is facing with his research. People have knee-jerk reactions to “conspiracy theories,” at least to the ones that do not make it into their established and trusted news outlets. And the mainstream media, so far, despite a blip or two in the New York Times, is taking a pass on this story. Yes, my skeptical friends believe that the Bush administration cynically smeared the war records of both John Kerry and John McCain during the 2000 presidential election through the use of shill agencies. Yes, they believe there was suppression of black voters in Florida, and other schemes to cheat their way into the White House in the 2000 election. Yes, they believe the administration conspired to rig the intelligence they used to justify their invasion of Iraq. Yes, if they are regular readers of The New Yorker, they believe that the election fraud was worse in 2004, with rigged ballot machines, in Ohio in particular, being used to great effect. And, yes, they believe in massive wrong-doing and cover-up regarding October Surprise and the Iran/Contra affair, as well as the CIA-orchestrated overthrows of democracies in Chile and Iran, to name only two well-known examples. But no, they don’t believe in conspiracy theories.
These are hardcore leftists who refuse to even entertain the question of whether science supports the conclusion that the planes brought the towers down. “Too many people would have to know about it for them to get away with it,” one friend said. “They’re not that smart,” said another. “It’s just not plausible,” said a third. The issues raised by Professor Jones are not breaking along standard political fissures. People’s relative amounts of skepticism and credulity, rather than their political affiliations, seem to determine their openness to giving the professor’s analysis a hearing. Jones himself claims to have been a lifelong Republican, but now affiliates with no political party. The audience Wednesday night was definitely not the usual suspects of progressive professors and pierced and tattooed activists and students who regularly gather to share criticism of the President, although there were a few of those, too. Mostly, they looked like a cross-section of average middle-Americans. But by the end of the evening, it is no exaggeration to say that most had become political radicals, not of the left and the right, but of the right and the wrong.
If Dr. JonesÂ’s work ever breaks into the mainstream media, and the rest of the country reacts the way the Utah County audience reacted, traditional political divisions will evaporate like steel beams exploded with thermite, and the whole lot of them, the Democrats and the Republicans, will be swept away, along with the military-industrial complex that has apparently managed to subvert the constitution of these United States and to con the American public, mesmerized by the shock of 9/11 and hypnotized by spell-binding incantations of freedom and patriotism, into going along with their mad plans for world domination.
http://mujca.com/jonesphysics.htm
BYUÂ’s Dr. Steven Jones Blows the Roof off a Utah Auditorium
by Philip Sherman Gordon
On Wednesday, February 1, a quiet, “churchy-looking” gentleman in a white shirt and tie walked into a packed auditorium on the campus of Utah Valley State College and electrified the room like a rock star. The 150-seat auditorium was filled to capacity, with every seat occupied, and people sitting in the aisles from the stage floor to the back of the room. Video cameras on tripods lined the back row. Two documentary-film crews were in attendance, in addition to the school’s camera crew, and various independent journalists. Seven “spill-over” rooms, with seating for 40-50 each, were also filled to capacity. On this very conservative campus (in the most conservative county in the most conservative state in the union), where community leaders pulled out all the stops in 2004 to prevent Michael Moore from speaking as part of his anti-Bush, pro-Kerry “Slacker Uprising Tour,” Dr. Steven Jones, this pious professor from the Mormon Church-owned Brigham Young University, calmly, gently, gave a simple physics lesson on the collapse of the World Trade Center buildings, the implications of which awed the audience with a sense of world-historical significance, and implied an indictment of the present administration so utterly devastating that it made Moore’s Fahrenheit 9/11 look like a Bush apologia.
Dr. Jones argues that the physics behind the governmentÂ’s explanation of the collapse of the Twin Towers on September 11 do not make sense, and that a better (and perhaps only) explanation for their collapse was that they were demolished, exactly the way structural engineers bring down large buildings, by pre-positioned explosive devices set off in precise sequences. He argues that the 650 degree Celsius temperature of burning jet fuel would not have been hot enough to even bend the steel girders of the WTC Towers, let alone to melt or evaporate them, as recovered beams indicate. And even if it was hot enough to evaporate the steel, the towers should not have collapsed as they did, pancaking so perfectly into their own footprints. On the rare times when such structures have failed (always due to earthquakes), they have toppled over sideways. The towers would have had to have been perfectly sliced, at every point along a horizontal plane at exactly the same instant, for something even resembling a pancaking effect to occur. And even if they did somehow pancake perfectly into their own footprints due to a structural failure, they would not have done it in the time it took for them to collapse, falling at essentially the speed of an apple dropped from the top of one of the towers, with nothing between it and the ground but thin air. The steel and concrete in the floors that collapsed should have taken some measurable time to break, and thus slowed the collapse somewhat as it unfolded. And even if it did collapse, at super speed, phwack phwack phwack, floor by floor, as fast as an apple falling through the air, impelled by the weight of the decapitated structure above it, its solid steel frame severed like a head by a flaming guillotine, that does not explain the molten steel seen at the Ground Zero clean-up site many days after the event. What could have caused such heat? asked Professor Jones.
And on it went, point by point, for almost two hours. Nothing about the physics of “what we know” about 9/11 seemed to add up. And all that’s not to mention the mysterious collapse of the forgotten WTC-7, the third steel-frame building that imploded due to fire, not only that day, but in the history of architectural design--the building that was not hit by a plane, that was surrounded by other buildings equally impacted but structurally undamaged by the collapse of the towers, that, with no jet fuel or violent impact, but allegedly due to a small number of scattered “debris fires,” collapsed, pancaking perfectly into its own footprint, looking exactly like video images of buildings being demolished by pre-positioned explosive devices. Playing the one available video of WTC-7 collapsing at slow speed, Dr. Jones used his laser pointer to indicate the explosive “squibs” clearly seen shooting their way up the sides of the building as it collapsed from the top center down. He showed still images of similar micro-explosions on the sides of the Twin Towers, with steel beams clearly visible, ejected out of the sides of the buildings, ahead of the dust, blown out before the above portions collapsed.
It is a devastating presentation, and one could feel the disequilibrium of 150 minds reeling at once. The defining moment of contemporary American experience suddenly lost its definition. What is the meaning of 9/11? What really happened that day? If these things are true, the implications clearly point to some kind of “inside job” involving the government of the United States of America. (The Department of Defense, the FBI, and the CIA all had offices in the mysteriously collapsed WTC-7. Is it reasonable that outside terrorists could have infiltrated that building and filled it with explosives? ) If the WTC was brought down by pre-positioned explosive devices, somehow facilitated and covered up by the government, it would be the most audacious conspiracy in human history. When before have so many people been so spectacularly bamboozled, with so much death and destruction, and such massive implications for geo-politics? Never, that’s when.
And that is the problem Dr. Jones is facing with his research. People have knee-jerk reactions to “conspiracy theories,” at least to the ones that do not make it into their established and trusted news outlets. And the mainstream media, so far, despite a blip or two in the New York Times, is taking a pass on this story. Yes, my skeptical friends believe that the Bush administration cynically smeared the war records of both John Kerry and John McCain during the 2000 presidential election through the use of shill agencies. Yes, they believe there was suppression of black voters in Florida, and other schemes to cheat their way into the White House in the 2000 election. Yes, they believe the administration conspired to rig the intelligence they used to justify their invasion of Iraq. Yes, if they are regular readers of The New Yorker, they believe that the election fraud was worse in 2004, with rigged ballot machines, in Ohio in particular, being used to great effect. And, yes, they believe in massive wrong-doing and cover-up regarding October Surprise and the Iran/Contra affair, as well as the CIA-orchestrated overthrows of democracies in Chile and Iran, to name only two well-known examples. But no, they don’t believe in conspiracy theories.
These are hardcore leftists who refuse to even entertain the question of whether science supports the conclusion that the planes brought the towers down. “Too many people would have to know about it for them to get away with it,” one friend said. “They’re not that smart,” said another. “It’s just not plausible,” said a third. The issues raised by Professor Jones are not breaking along standard political fissures. People’s relative amounts of skepticism and credulity, rather than their political affiliations, seem to determine their openness to giving the professor’s analysis a hearing. Jones himself claims to have been a lifelong Republican, but now affiliates with no political party. The audience Wednesday night was definitely not the usual suspects of progressive professors and pierced and tattooed activists and students who regularly gather to share criticism of the President, although there were a few of those, too. Mostly, they looked like a cross-section of average middle-Americans. But by the end of the evening, it is no exaggeration to say that most had become political radicals, not of the left and the right, but of the right and the wrong.
If Dr. JonesÂ’s work ever breaks into the mainstream media, and the rest of the country reacts the way the Utah County audience reacted, traditional political divisions will evaporate like steel beams exploded with thermite, and the whole lot of them, the Democrats and the Republicans, will be swept away, along with the military-industrial complex that has apparently managed to subvert the constitution of these United States and to con the American public, mesmerized by the shock of 9/11 and hypnotized by spell-binding incantations of freedom and patriotism, into going along with their mad plans for world domination.
re: Osama's Message to America!
It is a sad sight but pretty common.
Happens daily on trash TV.
So called "expert" gives his slant on things.
Audience comprised of physical science deficit people buy every word said because they haven't a clue and he's an "expert".
Knowledge of physics is a huge part of what is referred to as common sense.
Common sense is very uncommon and getting scarcer.
A simple demonstration of the collapse would be to build a house of cards. Bump table (earthquake) and it will likely go sideways. Mess up applying to the top and it goes straight down. Duh
Happens daily on trash TV.
So called "expert" gives his slant on things.
Audience comprised of physical science deficit people buy every word said because they haven't a clue and he's an "expert".
Knowledge of physics is a huge part of what is referred to as common sense.
Common sense is very uncommon and getting scarcer.
A simple demonstration of the collapse would be to build a house of cards. Bump table (earthquake) and it will likely go sideways. Mess up applying to the top and it goes straight down. Duh
re: Osama's Message to America!
So how is the collapse of WTC-7 explained with your "house of cards" analogy?
Doesn't it seem incredibly improbable that all these buildings, each sustaining different levels and types of damage, would all perfectly collapse into their own footprints? It's never happened before.
IMO, the freakish collapse of WTC-7 has yet to be explained - why was access denied to the investigation team until there was nothing left to investigate? Read more here: http://www.wtc7.net/
Doesn't it seem incredibly improbable that all these buildings, each sustaining different levels and types of damage, would all perfectly collapse into their own footprints? It's never happened before.
IMO, the freakish collapse of WTC-7 has yet to be explained - why was access denied to the investigation team until there was nothing left to investigate? Read more here: http://www.wtc7.net/
re: Osama's Message to America!
I have seen demolition crews on the Discovery channel wiring up a building for demolition. I would suspect that such activity would not have gone unoticed by the occupants of those buildings? Perhaps there is some info regarding this somewhere? Just a thought.
I have seen a documentary where the WTC planes that crashed into the towers were suspected of actually being military cargo jets with a rocket or bomb strapped on the underbelly. They zoomed right into the footage and saw a primary flash or explosion take place before impact. There's heaps on this subject out there on the net.. Testimony from the firefighters say that they heard a series of explosions just before the Towers collapsed....
I have seen a documentary where the WTC planes that crashed into the towers were suspected of actually being military cargo jets with a rocket or bomb strapped on the underbelly. They zoomed right into the footage and saw a primary flash or explosion take place before impact. There's heaps on this subject out there on the net.. Testimony from the firefighters say that they heard a series of explosions just before the Towers collapsed....
The limits of the possible can only be defined by going beyond them into the impossible.
re: Osama's Message to America!
I would expect nonmainstream thinkers here but the goofballs amaze me.
Any building which BURNS in the center will have the walls primarily collapse into the void in the center as the center plumetts. And what these "experts" claim be be an incredibly fast rate of fall is actually AFTER the center went past what they can observe on the outside.
That anyone would entertain such grand conspiracy thoughts, to me, seems like extreme ignorance. As though they would rather believe such garbage because it fits their political ideas or agenda.
Any building which BURNS in the center will have the walls primarily collapse into the void in the center as the center plumetts. And what these "experts" claim be be an incredibly fast rate of fall is actually AFTER the center went past what they can observe on the outside.
That anyone would entertain such grand conspiracy thoughts, to me, seems like extreme ignorance. As though they would rather believe such garbage because it fits their political ideas or agenda.
re: Osama's Message to America!
Which garbage are we supposed to believe?
Name a single historical instance where a steel building, such as WTC-7, collapsed perfectly into its own footprint as a result of fire. Now name an instance where this occurred in multiple buildings on the same day.
Setting aside goofball belief's for a moment - how did WTC-7 collapse and why was it's catastrophic structural failure not properly investigated?
Name a single historical instance where a steel building, such as WTC-7, collapsed perfectly into its own footprint as a result of fire. Now name an instance where this occurred in multiple buildings on the same day.
Setting aside goofball belief's for a moment - how did WTC-7 collapse and why was it's catastrophic structural failure not properly investigated?
re: Osama's Message to America!
The main structural componants of the Twin towers were the outside columns and the central core. The building was designed to have column free spaces from the core to the external edge. The floors were suspended in between.
Now the core would have been cast from solid reinforced concrete and the outer columns well, they were just a lot of relatively thin diameter steel columns.
The extreme heat would have most definately caused the internal steel floor beams to lose their structural integrity and the floors would have started to then collapse, one on top of each other. As the floors started to collapse, the external columns lost their vertical stiffness as their their "slenderness ratio" increased, and then started to buckle under the loads above. This would have been caused by the failing floors.
As the floors fell, one on top of each other, it paved the way for the external columns to also twist & buckle from the loads above and so a chain reaction followed till the towers reached the bottom.
I definately think that the collapses were very plausible.
You could almost see the towers start to sway just before they collapsed. I was watching it live as it was happening. I even commented to a friend that the towers were going to collapse!
Spiros.
Now the core would have been cast from solid reinforced concrete and the outer columns well, they were just a lot of relatively thin diameter steel columns.
The extreme heat would have most definately caused the internal steel floor beams to lose their structural integrity and the floors would have started to then collapse, one on top of each other. As the floors started to collapse, the external columns lost their vertical stiffness as their their "slenderness ratio" increased, and then started to buckle under the loads above. This would have been caused by the failing floors.
As the floors fell, one on top of each other, it paved the way for the external columns to also twist & buckle from the loads above and so a chain reaction followed till the towers reached the bottom.
I definately think that the collapses were very plausible.
You could almost see the towers start to sway just before they collapsed. I was watching it live as it was happening. I even commented to a friend that the towers were going to collapse!
Spiros.
The limits of the possible can only be defined by going beyond them into the impossible.
re: Osama's Message to America!
What about WTC-7 collapse?
re: Osama's Message to America!
I don't remember too many other details from back then.. I do remember that they announced that it had collapsed from the fire that had taken hold of it. I am unaware of the WTC-7 structure. I would have imagined that the buildings internal fire sprinkler systems should have abated or stopped the spread of the fire. Unless the building was directly impact damaged from the falling towers? Then that may have contributed... But there are some issues that have been raised which contradict the sequence of events... Hard to say, we can only speculate at this stage...
The limits of the possible can only be defined by going beyond them into the impossible.
- primemignonite
- Devotee
- Posts: 1000
- Joined: Sun May 22, 2005 8:19 am
re: Osama's Message to America!
As every good detective knows and does, information for all of these gets plugged in FIRST:
who had 1. MOTIVE
who had 2. THE MEANS
and 3. THE OPPORTUNITY
and 4. WHO STOOD TO GAIN?
and subsequently, 5. WHO DID
He goes in WHATEVER direction the clues lead, from very lowest to very highest, even exalted positions not mattering a wit to his ever-inquiring, suspicious bend of mind.
When investigating on our own, this regimen of five we too might attend to first, then the rest later, being armed with a secret list of suspects, usual . . . or otherwise.
On a scent gut-level, this thing does seem dirty and contrary to good sense, and many have profited which names and quarters would surprise, and perhaps, even, disappoint.
James
who had 1. MOTIVE
who had 2. THE MEANS
and 3. THE OPPORTUNITY
and 4. WHO STOOD TO GAIN?
and subsequently, 5. WHO DID
He goes in WHATEVER direction the clues lead, from very lowest to very highest, even exalted positions not mattering a wit to his ever-inquiring, suspicious bend of mind.
When investigating on our own, this regimen of five we too might attend to first, then the rest later, being armed with a secret list of suspects, usual . . . or otherwise.
On a scent gut-level, this thing does seem dirty and contrary to good sense, and many have profited which names and quarters would surprise, and perhaps, even, disappoint.
James
-
- Aficionado
- Posts: 761
- Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 4:44 am
- Location: Houston, TX
Re: re: Osama's Message to America!
Gordy, I've passed the pentagon a lot of times crossing over the 14th street bridge on my way to or thru DC. I've actually been inside the pentagon a couple of times. It appeared to be massive amounts of concrete that I'd guess was held with a steel structure. Can you document that it is mostly a wood frame building?racer270 wrote: the Pentagon was a mostly wood frame building
Gordy
Gene
Working Model 2D
[It is] the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings [is] to search out a matter.
[It is] the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings [is] to search out a matter.