Robert,
<I acknowledge the error of my ways and will make amends for the dreaded Torque Seeker caper.>
In my world you will have to do better than that.
Respect is earned and I do not give it lightly. To regain any respect from me, I believe individual detailed public apologies are in order to each individual you have offended here.
You could start with James Kelly, Bill,, Coylo, myself, Seawasp and any others you have attempted to demean by name calling or imply that they are part of any secret clique group withholding information without substantial proof.
Your obvious attempt to accuse James kelly and I as plotting some sort of conspiracy and or being one and the same person is one of many ingredients that started all this.
Ralph
It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than trying to solely profit
Moderator: scott
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Ralph,
I have no problems with admitting errors and apologizing, when everything is my fault, however, I did not walk alone among the artillery batteries.
Would you be amenable to choosing one our esteemed board colleagues to decide what to do and say? Some impartial and respected person who was above it all.
We need this, as the participants are too steamed, involved and defensive.
As with you, I refered to you as a deployed "airbag" among other things. Likewise, you have insulted me by belittling my ideas, hinting at drug use, and client problems, among other things. Total capitulation by one side, when both sides have sinned
would not be the fair outcome.
I nominate Ken to the position of umpire/judge.
However, I do not want to dump this chore on him, without first extending him the courtesy of refusing it first.
Ken would you do it?
We can wait a few days and let half of the participants argue for the death penalty while the other half also argues for the death penalty.
In the meantime, I will be working on my wheel, and will post how it's going in due course.
Somehow, we can make this the best PM board on the net, through it all...
robert
I have no problems with admitting errors and apologizing, when everything is my fault, however, I did not walk alone among the artillery batteries.
Would you be amenable to choosing one our esteemed board colleagues to decide what to do and say? Some impartial and respected person who was above it all.
We need this, as the participants are too steamed, involved and defensive.
As with you, I refered to you as a deployed "airbag" among other things. Likewise, you have insulted me by belittling my ideas, hinting at drug use, and client problems, among other things. Total capitulation by one side, when both sides have sinned
would not be the fair outcome.
I nominate Ken to the position of umpire/judge.
However, I do not want to dump this chore on him, without first extending him the courtesy of refusing it first.
Ken would you do it?
We can wait a few days and let half of the participants argue for the death penalty while the other half also argues for the death penalty.
In the meantime, I will be working on my wheel, and will post how it's going in due course.
Somehow, we can make this the best PM board on the net, through it all...
robert
Robert (The Carpenter's Boy)
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Robert,
Your above post strikes me as a partial redemption in the right direction. It would have been better if you would have deleted <however, I did not walk alone among the artillery batteries.> A true apology requires no defense. Either you come clean or you are still holding a grudge that makes your apology questionable.
I do not feel that appointing a judge to calibrate ones reputation is or should be required. It is up to the individual to set his own level of integrity and composure toward others.
It is up to each member to forgive and forget. I have always said that I am a forgiving person and give respect as earned without emphasizing the past. I look at you at present and what is to come with or without my influence, my respect is presented accordingly.
I am man enough to say I am sorry for what I have implied, without going on the defense by blaming others or stating that you misinterpreted my statements. Are you willing to do the same?
I say we need no judge, those of worthy recognition will decide for themselves. If they are not of character to forgive and forget after receiving a formal apology, then they are not worthy of caring about.
Simply keep in mind, burn me once and you are the fool, burn me twice and I am the fool. The ball is in your court, how will you deliver it?
Ralph
Your above post strikes me as a partial redemption in the right direction. It would have been better if you would have deleted <however, I did not walk alone among the artillery batteries.> A true apology requires no defense. Either you come clean or you are still holding a grudge that makes your apology questionable.
I do not feel that appointing a judge to calibrate ones reputation is or should be required. It is up to the individual to set his own level of integrity and composure toward others.
It is up to each member to forgive and forget. I have always said that I am a forgiving person and give respect as earned without emphasizing the past. I look at you at present and what is to come with or without my influence, my respect is presented accordingly.
I am man enough to say I am sorry for what I have implied, without going on the defense by blaming others or stating that you misinterpreted my statements. Are you willing to do the same?
I say we need no judge, those of worthy recognition will decide for themselves. If they are not of character to forgive and forget after receiving a formal apology, then they are not worthy of caring about.
Simply keep in mind, burn me once and you are the fool, burn me twice and I am the fool. The ball is in your court, how will you deliver it?
Ralph
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re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Robert wrote:
First, Robert never said he had a working wheel and did not try to obtain money from anybody with such a claim. Yes, technically he did violate the ToS by using another username and pretending to be someone else. But, then again, one could say that when any member chooses a username and does not reveal his real identity, then, in effect, he is pretending to be someone else than who he really is.
Second, there was a lot of name calling and "innuendo" flying around in this thread. However, it's difficult to judge exactly who started it and what misconceptions were involved.
Third, I consider banning a person from a Discussion Board to be a serious matter which should involve considerable deliberation. The only exception to this would be, in my opinion, in the case where the candidate for banishment is making threats of violence. In that case, banishment should be immediate and final. I have seen no such threats made by Robert.
Fourth, sometimes when a person feels like their integrity/morality/ethics are under attack by others, he can say things that he normally would not say if he did not feel so threatened. I think much of what I've seen on this thread can probably be rationalized by that motive. Perhaps Robert's individual way of expressing himself, his exuberance over his invention, or his secrecy regarding his invention caused some hostility to be directed toward him that then made him feel threatened and motivated him to respond in kind in an escalating war of words that, unfortunately, got out of hand and has resulted in him now being on the verge of banishment. However, he has admitted and apologized for his part in the matter and promised to "make amends".
Thus, I recommend that Robert be given another chance and that we all realize that the potential always exists here or on any forum for one or more members to get annoyed with another and then say something spiteful that can then provoke the other member to respond in kind which can lead to an escalating war of words and accusations that, in the long run, accomplishes nothing and does not serve the main goal of the particular board. We are supposed to be here to share our ideas about OU/PM in the hope that this will increase our chances of finally obtaining something that works. We are not here to insult, threaten, or scam each other.
However, I am not the Administrator of this Discussion Board and, ultimately, it is up to him to decide if a particular member's behavior merits banishment. I'm sure that Scott will not make such a decision lightly...
ken
Well, your request does put me in a somewhat awkward position. If I agree you should stay, then those who do not like you will disapprove of me and my decision. And, if I agree that you should be banned, then those who like you will disapprove of me and decision. Fortunately, I am not that concerned with what others think of my decisions. I try to call situations as I see them. So, here's how I see the situation:I nominate Ken to the position of umpire/judge.
However, I do not want to dump this chore on him, without first extending him the courtesy of refusing it first.
Ken would you do it?
First, Robert never said he had a working wheel and did not try to obtain money from anybody with such a claim. Yes, technically he did violate the ToS by using another username and pretending to be someone else. But, then again, one could say that when any member chooses a username and does not reveal his real identity, then, in effect, he is pretending to be someone else than who he really is.
Second, there was a lot of name calling and "innuendo" flying around in this thread. However, it's difficult to judge exactly who started it and what misconceptions were involved.
Third, I consider banning a person from a Discussion Board to be a serious matter which should involve considerable deliberation. The only exception to this would be, in my opinion, in the case where the candidate for banishment is making threats of violence. In that case, banishment should be immediate and final. I have seen no such threats made by Robert.
Fourth, sometimes when a person feels like their integrity/morality/ethics are under attack by others, he can say things that he normally would not say if he did not feel so threatened. I think much of what I've seen on this thread can probably be rationalized by that motive. Perhaps Robert's individual way of expressing himself, his exuberance over his invention, or his secrecy regarding his invention caused some hostility to be directed toward him that then made him feel threatened and motivated him to respond in kind in an escalating war of words that, unfortunately, got out of hand and has resulted in him now being on the verge of banishment. However, he has admitted and apologized for his part in the matter and promised to "make amends".
Thus, I recommend that Robert be given another chance and that we all realize that the potential always exists here or on any forum for one or more members to get annoyed with another and then say something spiteful that can then provoke the other member to respond in kind which can lead to an escalating war of words and accusations that, in the long run, accomplishes nothing and does not serve the main goal of the particular board. We are supposed to be here to share our ideas about OU/PM in the hope that this will increase our chances of finally obtaining something that works. We are not here to insult, threaten, or scam each other.
However, I am not the Administrator of this Discussion Board and, ultimately, it is up to him to decide if a particular member's behavior merits banishment. I'm sure that Scott will not make such a decision lightly...
ken
On 7/6/06, I found, in any overbalanced gravity wheel with rotation rate, ω, axle to CG distance d, and CG dip angle φ, the average vertical velocity of its drive weights is downward and given by:
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
Re: re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, t
rks1878 wrote:I acknowledge the error of my ways and will make amends for the dreaded Torque Seeker caper.
Well, that's one step in the right direction, Robert, and I do appreciate it.
But what about the constant digs at me and accusations that I only run this website as part of some nefarious plot?
E.g.
"And we know how everybody is, from the top down about holding their cards close don't we?"
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... 3904#23904
"Thanks for bolstering my belief that this site is run by a tight little clique of PM'sters."
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... 3703#23703
"...a small clique has tried for years to solve the PM riddle, couldn't do it, so uses this board to generate ideas."
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... 4341#24341
What did I ever do to you Robert to deserve such treatment?
-Scott
Last edited by scott on Mon Feb 13, 2006 3:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Scott,
My sentiments exactly, I believe a public apology is due for each specific altercation or slanderous statement made and to the individual involved.
It is not that hard to do if you are man enough to ignore the vision of eating crow when making amends.
Then again we have not heard from Robert lately, maybe (one can dream) that he has pulled the plug.
Ralph
My sentiments exactly, I believe a public apology is due for each specific altercation or slanderous statement made and to the individual involved.
It is not that hard to do if you are man enough to ignore the vision of eating crow when making amends.
Then again we have not heard from Robert lately, maybe (one can dream) that he has pulled the plug.
Ralph
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Edit.
Last edited by Michael on Mon Feb 13, 2006 4:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Robert is obviously frustrated by this mother of a problem, just like everyone else. Live and learn.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
I am still laughing at his offer to nominate his own trial judge. Being on the other end of the stick, I would say that is a little hunt for a biased opinion or predilection.
Ralph
Ralph
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Your right Bill.
Re: re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, t
Ralph,rlortie wrote:
Then again we have not heard from Robert lately, maybe (one can dream) that he has pulled the plug.
Ralph
I'm waiting for everyone to have a say in it.
Like I thought, it will run the gamit from extreem, like wishing I commit suicide, to ovyyus' seeming understanding.
Scott, seems to have hit on a good way...he has listed the infractions, and asked a question.
If others could do the same or similar, I will respond to each one here by apologizing.
I am not trying to continue the fight. I will say to Scott now that my opinions listed here about this site/him were wrong, and that I am sorry. And to you Ralph, and jim kelly, I was wrong to think you all were the same person and I apologize for that and am sorry.
I got wrapped up in the heat of it all and won't do it to anybody again.
If a stone is cast at me, I will not cast one back .
How can I prove that, if I commit suicide or otherwise leave the site?
robert
Robert (The Carpenter's Boy)
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
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AgingYoung
- Aficionado
- Posts: 761
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re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Robert,
The main reason I like to trade is that no matter what anyone thinks of me if I can understand the market I can make a modest living. My living isn't dependant on what anyone thinks of me. It's a heck of an equalizer. I like an environment where my ideas make things happen. I am not my ideas; they have a life all on their own. If someone has to like me before they consider my ideas then that's their loss. I'd rather spend time thinking about ideas than thinking about how to polish ideas to make them acceptable to the broadest possible constituency. I'm not a politician.
I'm looking forward to your ideas.
Gene
The main reason I like to trade is that no matter what anyone thinks of me if I can understand the market I can make a modest living. My living isn't dependant on what anyone thinks of me. It's a heck of an equalizer. I like an environment where my ideas make things happen. I am not my ideas; they have a life all on their own. If someone has to like me before they consider my ideas then that's their loss. I'd rather spend time thinking about ideas than thinking about how to polish ideas to make them acceptable to the broadest possible constituency. I'm not a politician.
I'm looking forward to your ideas.
Gene
Working Model 2D
[It is] the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings [is] to search out a matter.
[It is] the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings [is] to search out a matter.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Apology accepted, Robert. I'm more than happy to forgive, forget, and move on. I'm also sorry for threatening to move your posts to the Fraud forum. Coylo was right that I just got a little too worked up and wanted to make you sweat a little. That was immature of me and I'm sorry.
Thanks,
Scott
Thanks,
Scott
Thanks for visiting BesslerWheel.com
"Liberty is the Mother, not the Daughter of Order."
- Pierre Proudhon, 1881
"To forbid us anything is to make us have a mind for it."
- Michel de Montaigne, 1559
"So easy it seemed, once found, which yet unfound most would have thought impossible!"
- John Milton, 1667
"Liberty is the Mother, not the Daughter of Order."
- Pierre Proudhon, 1881
"To forbid us anything is to make us have a mind for it."
- Michel de Montaigne, 1559
"So easy it seemed, once found, which yet unfound most would have thought impossible!"
- John Milton, 1667
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
would,nt it be weird if someone produced a working wheel from the fraud section
fraud sounds bad but does not prevent orignal thought
fraud sounds bad but does not prevent orignal thought
the uneducated
if your gona be dumb you gota be tough
Who need drugs when you can have fatigue toxins and caffeine
if your gona be dumb you gota be tough
Who need drugs when you can have fatigue toxins and caffeine
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
No one has a mortgage on the solution or original thought & it can come from anywhere & any source.
You also don't have to have an IQ higher than room temperature & more degrees than Dianna Ross.
Where people become unstuck & alienate support imo is when they let their ego's take control. That should be watched out for & kept in check.
You also don't have to have an IQ higher than room temperature & more degrees than Dianna Ross.
Where people become unstuck & alienate support imo is when they let their ego's take control. That should be watched out for & kept in check.