AHHH!! HMMMM............

[Michael]

> still disagree Michael, on one side he managed to draw the endpoints at horizontal, on the other he didn't.

Well I disagree your disagree (giggle). I think, and am maintaining-until that I am proven wrong, that those drawings are near exact, and are only made to look sloppy to hide their significance. I bet if you placed a grid on it you would see that the image is made from 90 degree angles.
My speculation is where it's not, like in the area I mentioned, it denotes MOVEMENT.
Eg;
>You'll notice that on MT142, the line that Steward thinks is a water line is in fact not horizontal, but quite close.

MOVEMENT

> I now think that it is water, and the fact that it's not acting exactly like water makes me think that it just wasn't that well drawn.

MOVEMENT
and I don't think it is water, but an angled arm meant to move.

>On MT143, it should have been glaringly obvious to him that the flipper-floppers were drawn too big for the stand when the dotted lines pass right by the horizontals. In fact there was no reason for them to be drawn that big since there is an enlargement of them shown about the device.

Could you clarify this? I don't understand what you mean.
I still feel those "spheres" are in fact a movement line. Important because they show a movement, or a shifting-not from the center of the gear or pulley, but outside of it, possibly denoting that it is not fixed, and it too has to move during a certain time segment of the wheel.

Also, to everyone, don't you find it a little curious that 135 on the back traces exactly the parts of 142? Good trick if the polished drawing ie. 135 is actually a secondary alignment guide to the seemingly inferior drawing-142

Thanks,

Mike

Mike

[Jonathan]

Well I disagree with your disagree with my disagree. Here is what I mean when I talk about the flipper-floppers hitting the horizontals. Technically one could make the axles on the gears long so that the flipper-floppers are in a plane parallel to but different from the plane the parallelogram is in, but that isn't shown.

[ovyyus]

Hi Michael,

Also, to everyone, don't you find it a little curious that 135 on the back traces exactly the parts of 142?

Now that's interesting. I hadn't considered the possibility that 135 and 142 might have a deeper connection.

I think it's obvious that Bessler probably used the semi-transparent reverse side image of 135 as a guide to sketch 142 - they align pretty well (their 'heavy' sides are also aligned). But is 142 an embellishment of 135? If so, is 143 and embellishment of 136?

[ovyyus]

What did Bessler draw at the centre of MT142?

[ovyyus]

MT135 merged with MT142. MT135 has been mirrored as though looking at it through the back of the page (the way Bessler would have seen it when sketching 142). Alignment is 'exact' when page distortion is accounted for.

[jim_mich]

Golly gee, by now you guys have got me totaly confused. I think many are trying to read too much into these drawings. If as some later date someone were to gather up all my many idea sketches and put them into a note book ( I have no idea why they would do such) and then try to read some hidden meaning into the sketches, I would just laugh. There would be no meaning. They are just a collection of mechanical concepts and ideas. If there were some text describing each drawing they would have much more meaning.

On another note, I have been making a list of concepts or mechanical movements that are the palette from which a bessler wheel must be made. I should start another thread but here is a beginning. I hope to expand on these at sometime.

1] gravity - continious force from above.
2] inertia - continious travel of an object.
3] centrifugal - outward force from the center of a spinning object caused by inertia.
4] circular speed - speed of a rotating wheel, outer edge travels faster.
5] circular inertia - outer edge has more inertia because traveling faster.
6] wheel rotational speed can be varied by changing a weights radius from center.
7] leverage - can be used to change movement speed or force.
8] gears - just fancy levers
9] belts (string, rope, chains, etc.) just a method of redirecting movement.

Of these inertia, centrifical force and leverage would seem to be the keys to a working wheel. Centrifical force can make a weight seem lighter near the top of a wheel and heavier near the bottom. A weight traveling at a fixed speed can travel farther around a wheel during a given time if it moves toward the center. Or it can give up or take on energy by changing its distance from the axle and pressing against the wheel. Leverage can be used to cause a movement at an earlier or later point on the rotating wheel. Combine all of these in the right mix should give a pretty working picture.

Now where did I put my paint brush??

[Jonathan]

I agree with Jim_mich, you guys are really grasping at straws now, MT142 and 135 completely loose correspondence between 4 and 10 (going cw). I also agree with him that CoAM could play an important role.

[TommyK]

Have you guys forgot about or overlooked the thing image while trying to figure out what is inside the circle on the crossbar?

Another thing I found strange about that image is if you magnify it and look at the splotch at the lower right of the hook barbell it appears you will see a familiar person.

Actually if you look at that image magnified you will find many strange faces.

[Stewart]

I'm not sure about the spheres containing water- it was just a suggestion to explain that faint horizontal line. I can't see how water inside would do anything to help the weights move. I think it is more likely that the two circles are both weights and not a float and a weight.

I don't think the larger circles are movement lines - I think Bessler would have made them dotted lines like he did in MT143.

I think it's interesting that the MT142 and MT135 line up exactly - could Bessler just have used 135 as a drawing guide for MT142 - or is there a suggested link between the two images? I'm not sure yet.

It does look like there is something in the middle of MT142 - I'll have a closer look and see if I can make anything out.

All the best
Stewart

[Stewart]

Hi Jonathan

MT142 and 135 completely loose correspondence between 4 and 10 (going cw).

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

The cross beams and stand of MT142 not only fit the angles in MT135 but they are also aligned over it exactly.

All the best
Stewart

[Jonathan]

You have to look at the circumference, they don't line up between 4 and 10.
Well it's been awhile TommyK, you haven't returned my emails. I don't understand where you see the faces, I've never been able to make anything of that image, not even what Mikey Ned saw.

[Stewart]

Ah, I think I see what your saying! You're talking about on Bill's image that the overlay of MT135 doesn't exactly fit the faint wheel showing through the page on MT142. The overlay of MT135 shown is the faint image showing through, so of course they match exactly! Have a look back at the images in this topic - look for the one where I've added the overlay of MT135 in red over the embossed image of MT142, and you'll see a better fit. What we are saying though, is that the cross beams of MT142 and the stand are drawn to exactly align to MT135 - this is probably because Bessler could see the image through the page and used it as a guide as he was hand drawing MT142.

Stewart

[Michael]

Can someone possibly post a pic of the image I asked for...? And I'll show you what I mean.

Sincerely,
Michael

[Stewart]

Hi Michael

Is this what you are after? I've overlaid a grid which might make it easier for you to explain your ideas.

All the best
Stewart

[Michael]

Hi Stewart,

No I mean a blown up pic of the same area you have, without the embossing effect and grid-so I can point out the jack.
Thanks,,

Michael