Meet the Clockmaker: Cracking Bessler's Code

[pstroud]

Spinner,

Please note that the link you referred to is for Alden Park's writings on Bessler. I learned the hard way recently that it had very little to do with Bessler after all.

I ordered John Collin's 2 books of english translations of Bessler's exact writings. After reading the books, I kept wandering where all of the details were that I had been previously reading from Alden Park's paper. I contacted John Collins and found out the truth.... I had thought that most of the materials in Alden's 96 pg paper was Bessler's when it was actually Alden's personal interpretation and opinion of Bessler's writing.

For example, Alden had a whole paragraph interpreting each single sentence of Bessler's little riddle. I had thought that those paragraph's were Bessler's but as it turns out, only 3 words may have belong to him.

In the end, I discarded Alden's papers and focus completely on clues that I can obtain from Bessler's own words in John Collin's books (as converted to English).

There is a lot of good material in Alden's papers but I know from personal experience that it is nearly impossible to determine what was stated by Bessler and what is Alden Park's interpretation & opinion.

Good Luck with the wheel building!!!!!

Preston.

[spinner361]

That is kind of a bummer that his paper is so far off. I guess I should brerak down and buy John's new book, considering I spend so much time on it. But still, I have definitely stumbled upon something good. I just took the clues from the paper and try to see if I have things that were mentioned. I do not really try to do it the other way around.

At this point I do need a hammer, whether it is in Bessler's words or not. I do see some hammering going on in what I understand to be the toy page.

[ken_behrendt]

Welcome Spinner...

and thanks for the compliment. Actually, I like to think of myself as an average guy who just spent way too much time with the paranormal, UFOs, and perpetual motion machines...

Well, it seems that you have found some modification to Novus' Hour Weight Wheel that allows it to work as a WM2D model. If so, then it is certainly worth attempting a real build IF you're sure that there is not some WM2D glitch that accounts for the motion of the model.

Yes, the general consensus around here is that Alden Park's material is more of an expression of the author's personal religious beliefs than a reliable interpretation of Bessler's writings. At a minimum, you would do well to obtain a copy (I recommend a download that you put on a CD) of John's book Perpetual Motion: An Ancient Mystery Solved? which will give you a broad overview of the history of Bessler and his inventions.

Once again, I think the designs that Novus has presented show us how we must be very careful about jumping to conclusions that a design MUST work just because it manages to keep the CG of its weights on one side of the wheel's axle at all times. The question we must always ask when presented with such a design is "HOW does it maintain that imbalance?". Chances are, if the imbalance is maintained by interconnections between the weights in the design, then there will be counter torques present that will prevent the wheel from turning. Usually, these counter torques are difficult or impossible to predict from just a casual viewing of the design.


ken

[spinner361]

I will download his first book right after I post this. I have been reluctant so far because the MTs show such a wide variety of concepts, plus many of you have studied this book for quite a while, yet no one knows which way to go (around, right?). Many members of this board have tried several ideas. I have tried several ideas. Regardless, the price is right, and I am sure it is a very good read.

I will build, but because I am learning so much every time I play, I am sure I will be better prepared in springtime. I am preparing documentation to have notarized and packed in safety deposit box, and should anything happen to me before I complete it there will be instructions as to how to post this data public or apply for a patent and hire an engineer.

I do agree that one can get excited about an idea. I have stayed up many nights with the torpedo heater going in my garage building protoypes for a false belief that it could not go wrong.

For the current designs, I have played with the weight amounts, rotation speeds, and timing extensively to be certain that friction is my only enemy. Well, pretty certain. I try not to get too excited anymore. The self starting is pretty cool though.

One more thing. I am sure that my ideas, if workable, put out very little power compared to the standards of modern machinery, but I think all I really need is something to maintain its own spin without stopping. I am not going to use it to pump water or any labor intensive activity. I just want to hook up some inductors to it and power my house, then my friends' houses, then their friends' houses, etc. I dream of giving the first few devices away at my own expense. The word will spread faster than I will be able to fill orders. If I get this far, it will be because it works.

[AgingYoung]

spinner361,
I'd like to qualify this statement:

It's also my opinion that if this problem could be solved with simple machines (levers, inclined planes, etc) it would have already been solved.

The small detail I left out of that statement is that when those simple machines connect all the weights at all times. That pretty much describes Novus's clock. Even before that idea was well formed in my thoughts and from my very first build I never attempted to connect all weights to each other and to the axle.

You said:

I am merely suggesting that this general concept is not a waste of time.

How would you describe the general concept of Novus's clock?

Gene

[Novus]

I don't know why I am even showing you this after all the doubters here. I should be patenting this. The only reason I am telling you how Bessler did it is because I think the world will end if I don't. I downloaded WM2D and after three days of fooling with it solved it for good this time.

This locking mechanism will offset any counter torques in the Bessler clockwheel. I guarantee this is how Bessler did it. You can even see the locking mechanism on the side of his wheel. It has been sitting in plain sight the whole time.



You may need to move the anchors around a bit to get the perfect motion going. Ignore the overlap and hit play.

Build this locking mechanism correctly in WM2D and look in absolute awe.

I know one of you is going to patent this but I don't care. I don't want to end up like Bessler and take this Idea to the grave.

[Patrick]

Novus,
This concept is ingenius; how did you come up with this idea?

[Novus]

This actually the simplest idea I have come up with. If you remove the locking mechanism you will see my chainless design is a self starter but it won't go all the way around because the wheels are slipping and not maintaining their origional configuration. The latch stopped the sliping just at the critical point where the wheel is about to go perpetual. You have to see the design in action to beleive it.

[jim_mich]

Novus, can you save your model, or are you using the demo version? I tried to duplicate your model, but can't get it to keep turning. It 'keels' and then rock back and forth. Can you note, record and post the exact specifications?

[coylo]

This design wont work. That lego model I posted - I actually built 3 years ago. Been there done that, so don't be going and thinking its an original patentable idea. I even had to correct your diagrams.

The locking mech (probably a rachet and pawl) is the oldest trick in the book. Deluding yourself into thinking that the wheel has to rotate because it cant go in the opposite direction is just plain ignorant - it wont work in the first place.

Sometimes I think I should post up my whole inventory.

[Oystein]

Check out what "overlap" does to WM2D... ;-)
Energy pops up from nowhere...not very real..sorry

Best
Oystein

[Novus]

Jim, I only have the demo so I can't save. To make the keeling motion perpetual place the rachet lock Under the 9 O'clock position. I have also used a spring and a rod keep it moving. I have yet to try a rope as your diagram shows.

Coylo, Indeed the rachet and paw is the oldest trick in the book. Chinese clockmakers have been using it for 2000 years. Your lego model was based on the correct concept. It is simply the engineering that is getting in the way. The gears force the counter torques to stop the natural rotation of the clock wheel. The lack of gears in my newest model allow the counter torques to slip in a pendulum like motion. The rachet catches the counter torque at its crest and allows the clock wheel to continue turning.

Oystein, energy pops up out of nowhere because the program cannot interpret rotational forces across multiple planes. That doesn't mean these self perpetuating forces do not exist.

[jim_mich]

Yes, overlap can cause wm2d to add energy where none exists. I usually set overlap error to 0.001 inch.

Novus, in order to see what you're seeing I need to duplicate it exactly. That means I need to know the dimensions you used. The reasons for that are that this acts like a complex clock pendulum. We all know that certain sized pendulums swing at fixed rates. With your model the top three wheels engage the center wheel and act like they are geared together. But the bottom wheel is disengaged (because of wm2d overlap error value) and swings freely until it becomes one of the top wheels. My model didn't use the same dimensions as your model so it's 'timing' is not right and instead of the bottom free-swinging wheel adding to the rotation it stops the rotation. This is why I need to know the dimensions and weights of your components in order to validate and analyze what you are seeing. It may be that when all is sized just right then it continues to turn like a coasting bike wheel. Or maybe you are on to something?

If this works then you have one year to patent it in the US since you have now publicly disclosed your idea. No one else can patent it now. By disclosing it you have given up all patent rights in most other countries. Of course this assumes that the idea works, since a patent on a machine that does not work as stated in a patent makes the patent invalid.

Since just throwing together five wheels with four being out-of-balance and then adding a one-way latch won't always work you need to define what it is that makes your idea work. This is what the patent office calls 'full disclosure'. It means that you must provide enough information so that anyone skilled in the art (in this case PM wheel making) can duplicate your invention. This is also necessary for the world to make and use your idea, assuming that it works.

The next hurdle the PTO requires you to jump over would be proof that it works and puts out continuous energy. That would most likely require a physical model. Building a physical model that duplicates wm2d would require the physical model to be and act just like Working Models, so again you need to know the exact dimensions, weights and the overlap error. The overlap error is important because it determines when the wheels engage and disengage the center wheel. In the real world overlap error would equate to how much clearance the rods provide to the wheels.

Just trying to help.

[Novus]

I had a lot of trouble myself recreating this thing.

Here are the exact specs.

Large Wheels:
Center Wheel: X=9.4 Y=-1.6 r=1.2
3 O'clock Wheel: X=11.8 Y=-1.596 r=1.2
6 O'clock Wheel: X=9.4 Y=-4.004 r=1.2
9 O'clock Wheel: X=7.0 Y=-1.596 r=1.2
12 O' clock Wheel: X=9.4 Y=0.804 r=1.2

Small Wheels:
3 O'clock Wheel: X=12.8 Y=-1.596 r=0.2
6 O'clock Wheel: X=8.4 Y=-4.004 r=0.2
9 O'clock Wheel: X=8.0 Y=-1.596 r=0.2
12 O' clock Wheel: X=8.4 Y=0.804 r=0.2

The clock wheel itself is 4.8 meters in diameter. The X,Y of the rod diamond is (4.8m, 4.808).
See (3 O'clock X(11.8) - 9 O'clock X(7.0), 12 O'clock Y(0.804) - 6 O'clock Y(-4.004))

As you can see there is no overlap on X and 0.008 gap on the Y. Rotation of the main clockwheel will deform the rod diamond causing periodic engagement and disengagment with the center wheel as by the pendulum. The rotational force should be enough for one complete revolution without the use of the locking mechanism.

I hope this is helpfull in getting reproducable results.

[jim_mich]

Novus, Thank you for those specs. I'll try to recreate it later this evening.

I'm in the middle of writing a patent application (not perpetual motion) and went to the US PTO website to look up drawing margin requirements and found the following statement from http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/doc/general/

A working model, or other physical exhibit, may be required by the Office if deemed necessary. This is not done very often. A working model may be requested in the case of applications for patent for alleged perpetual motion devices.