They sold for a mere $5 USD and one of the vendors told me that they were the same ones being sold on tv for about $20 USD. Upon inspection, I realized that while the basic design was identical, the one's at the flea marker were cheap Chinese made imitations of the real thing and much poorer in quality. The genuine one's on tv are a patented product, yet there I was holding a version manufactured in a foreign company and being sold in the USA. I wondered just how much royalties were being lost by the original inventor of these devices that day...
Complete this drawing and make the machine.
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Joel Wright
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re: Complete this drawing and make the machine.
Hey Ken if you examine those Chinese flashlights close,you 'll see what you think is a capacitor is really two 1.5 volt batteries.What appears to be a magnet that slides thru a coil is not a magnet at all.It has no magnetism.No need for it the two batteries by themselfs will power the diode for months with a continuous draw.This may be how the Chinese are circumventing patent laws.Even though the light does'nt self charge the packaging leads one to be believe it is....................................For example, yesterday I attended a local flea market in my town. As I went from table to table looking for a bargain, I noticed that the new "hot" item was those see-through plastic flashlights that contain a sliding magnet and coil which are shaken to inductively charge up a capacitor that then powers a small light emitting diode that produces light.
They sold for a mere $5 USD and one of the vendors told me that they were the same ones being sold on tv for about $20 USD. Upon inspection, I realized that while the basic design was identical, the one's at the flea marker were cheap Chinese made imitations of the real thing and much poorer in quality. The genuine one's on tv are a patented product, yet there I was holding a version manufactured in a foreign company and being sold in the USA. I wondered just how much royalties were being lost by the original inventor of these devices that day...
They sold for a mere $5 USD and one of the vendors told me that they were the same ones being sold on tv for about $20 USD. Upon inspection, I realized that while the basic design was identical, the one's at the flea marker were cheap Chinese made imitations of the real thing and much poorer in quality. The genuine one's on tv are a patented product, yet there I was holding a version manufactured in a foreign company and being sold in the USA. I wondered just how much royalties were being lost by the original inventor of these devices that day...
Work with gravity and gravity will work for you.There are more than two sides to a wheel.
re: Complete this drawing and make the machine.
Ken
Can you explain why you think there would be any proof of Besslers Wheel?
It only looks like it was real. No one has proof that Bessler had a certain design. At least up to now they do not.
Up to this point I am confused about you thinking someones discovery of a working wheel would belong to anyone except the person who discovered it.
Can you explain why you think there would be any proof of Besslers Wheel?
It only looks like it was real. No one has proof that Bessler had a certain design. At least up to now they do not.
Up to this point I am confused about you thinking someones discovery of a working wheel would belong to anyone except the person who discovered it.
JB Wheeler
it exists I think I found it.
it exists I think I found it.
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AgingYoung
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re: Complete this drawing and make the machine.
Fine point, Jim. There's no way you could know if it were the 'Bessler secret' or not. I think that before too long this idea will be a commodity and the price will drop faster than prices for electronics. The general idea can't be patented and there must be numerous ways to accomplish it. Trying to protect the idea would be impossible.
Gene
Gene
Working Model 2D
[It is] the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings [is] to search out a matter.
[It is] the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings [is] to search out a matter.
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ken_behrendt
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re: Complete this drawing and make the machine.
Joel wrote:
Wheeler wrote:
Others have asked me how I will know if I have actually found the "general" solution to Bessler's one-directional wheels. That is not an easy question to answer. All I can say is that I've done so much work on this problem over the years that I think I will just intuitively "know" when (and if) I have it.
The design will be very simple, use only weights, levers, stops, springs, and, perhaps, pulleys. It will not be some radical departure from the classical attempts to achieve a working overbalancing wheel, yet, on the other hand, it's design will be novel enough to have eluded the tens of thousands of other who sought it in vain. The performance of the device will be almost identical to what the eye witnesses reported. The one-directional wheel will be self-starting and will reach a terminal rotational velocity. It's torque will be maximal when it is stationary, but will diminish as it speeds up a attains its terminal velocity. It will produce 8 sounds on its descending side. Etc.
I wish I could give a more precise explanation of how to tell if you've got it. All I can say is that I will know it when (and if) I see it...
ken
Interesting possibility which never occurred to me as I examined these Chinese made induction flashlights. One of the venders told me that her son had shaken one of them for a minute or so and then left it on for 48 hours! That did seem a bit long for a minute of shaking! However, there was a warning on the packaging to keep the flashlight away from equipment that was sensitive to magnetic fields. Maybe that warning was fake too?!Hey Ken if you examine those Chinese flashlights close,you 'll see what you think is a capacitor is really two 1.5 volt batteries.What appears to be a magnet that slides thru a coil is not a magnet at all.It has no magnetism.No need for it the two batteries by themselfs will power the diode for months with a continuous draw.This may be how the Chinese are circumventing patent laws.Even though the light does'nt self charge the packaging leads one to be believe it is.
Wheeler wrote:
Can you explain why you think there would be any proof of Besslers Wheel?
It only looks like it was real. No one has proof that Bessler had a certain design. At least up to now they do not.
Others have asked me how I will know if I have actually found the "general" solution to Bessler's one-directional wheels. That is not an easy question to answer. All I can say is that I've done so much work on this problem over the years that I think I will just intuitively "know" when (and if) I have it.
The design will be very simple, use only weights, levers, stops, springs, and, perhaps, pulleys. It will not be some radical departure from the classical attempts to achieve a working overbalancing wheel, yet, on the other hand, it's design will be novel enough to have eluded the tens of thousands of other who sought it in vain. The performance of the device will be almost identical to what the eye witnesses reported. The one-directional wheel will be self-starting and will reach a terminal rotational velocity. It's torque will be maximal when it is stationary, but will diminish as it speeds up a attains its terminal velocity. It will produce 8 sounds on its descending side. Etc.
I wish I could give a more precise explanation of how to tell if you've got it. All I can say is that I will know it when (and if) I see it...
ken
On 7/6/06, I found, in any overbalanced gravity wheel with rotation rate, ω, axle to CG distance d, and CG dip angle φ, the average vertical velocity of its drive weights is downward and given by:
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
re: Complete this drawing and make the machine.
Hi Ken
Thanks for the theory, but I was not asking what you thought might be proof to you.
I was asking how anyone could ever say it was Besslers?
You said if someone came up with a working wheel, it would be like steeling Besslers idea, if they claimed it as there own idea.
How could you or anyone think they could prove it was?
Thanks for the theory, but I was not asking what you thought might be proof to you.
I was asking how anyone could ever say it was Besslers?
You said if someone came up with a working wheel, it would be like steeling Besslers idea, if they claimed it as there own idea.
How could you or anyone think they could prove it was?
JB Wheeler
it exists I think I found it.
it exists I think I found it.
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ken_behrendt
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re: Complete this drawing and make the machine.
Wheeler asks:
However, there is another issue involved here. You see, I am somewhat convinced that there might only be ONE type of "general" mechanism that allows a working gravity wheel to be made and Bessler managed to find it.
Yes, I know many here will protest and say that is impossible and there are probably many ways of doing it. Well, if that is the case, one would expect at least one of the tens of thousands of "seekers after perpetual motion" since Bessler to have found one of those other ways of doing it. But, there is no evidence of this.
The most conservative approach, I feel, is to assume that, in reality, there is only ONE way of doing it. So, if someone manages to produce a working gravity wheel, then is MUST be using Bessler's general design.
It is mainly for thinking along these lines that I will NOT be seeking a patent on anything I come up with that works. After all, I would never have gotten involved in the "quest" in the first place if I had not read about the work of Bessler. His efforts were my inspiration and I will have to give him a large percentage of the credit if and when I find success.
ken
Well, if it matches all of the hints Bessler gave and works like his inventions did, then that would seem to suggest it was what he found.I was asking how anyone could ever say it was Besslers?
However, there is another issue involved here. You see, I am somewhat convinced that there might only be ONE type of "general" mechanism that allows a working gravity wheel to be made and Bessler managed to find it.
Yes, I know many here will protest and say that is impossible and there are probably many ways of doing it. Well, if that is the case, one would expect at least one of the tens of thousands of "seekers after perpetual motion" since Bessler to have found one of those other ways of doing it. But, there is no evidence of this.
The most conservative approach, I feel, is to assume that, in reality, there is only ONE way of doing it. So, if someone manages to produce a working gravity wheel, then is MUST be using Bessler's general design.
It is mainly for thinking along these lines that I will NOT be seeking a patent on anything I come up with that works. After all, I would never have gotten involved in the "quest" in the first place if I had not read about the work of Bessler. His efforts were my inspiration and I will have to give him a large percentage of the credit if and when I find success.
ken
On 7/6/06, I found, in any overbalanced gravity wheel with rotation rate, ω, axle to CG distance d, and CG dip angle φ, the average vertical velocity of its drive weights is downward and given by:
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
re: Complete this drawing and make the machine.
Snpssaini
I am looking forward to your next drawings.
It's April fools day! today and wondered
Whats up doc?
I am looking forward to your next drawings.
It's April fools day! today and wondered
Whats up doc?
JB Wheeler
it exists I think I found it.
it exists I think I found it.
re: Complete this drawing and make the machine.
Back in the swing of things, i haven't been to this site in some time, about a year, well Snpssaini is sounds like you know exactly what i have knowen for a long time . I have never built a model of it but do know how it runs,why it runs.that it is all running off the ''chain''reaction of the wheel .The wheel will be very heavy-set 'it-self' ,the more strenght needed the greater the weight . the device that runs the fast swinging of everything is simple and common i have no problem discussing this with you further, i am comfortable about the situation ''rounder''
re: Complete this drawing and make the machine.
About PM disclosure:
I think it will be like the "100th monkey scenario"; once a serious working model is out there (here), everyone else shall disclose, release, co-invent such machinery in the first and comming years. Also the big oil companies, known to have taken such technologies, will 'suddenly' come with solid efficient machines. After three years it will be very difficult to say who started this hype.
I suggest: Release it publicly, and try to make a good impression.
I think it will be like the "100th monkey scenario"; once a serious working model is out there (here), everyone else shall disclose, release, co-invent such machinery in the first and comming years. Also the big oil companies, known to have taken such technologies, will 'suddenly' come with solid efficient machines. After three years it will be very difficult to say who started this hype.
I suggest: Release it publicly, and try to make a good impression.
Marchello E.
-- May the force lift you up. In case it doesn't, try something else.---
-- May the force lift you up. In case it doesn't, try something else.---
re: Complete this drawing and make the machine.
Those people with no intellectual property advocate that other people's intellectual property should be distributed freely. This is a communistic concept that does not work. It destroys the incentive to invent.
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james kelly
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Re: re: Complete this drawing and make the machine.
In general people always advocate things for their own advantage.jim_mich wrote:Those people with no intellectual property advocate that other people's intellectual property should be distributed freely.
Just a human concept (also a capitalistic one)This is a communistic concept that does not work.
Keeping inventions locked-up inside patents or company vault destroys the invention itself.It destroys the incentive to invent.
btw: I hope your reply was not personally intended.
Marchello E.
-- May the force lift you up. In case it doesn't, try something else.---
-- May the force lift you up. In case it doesn't, try something else.---
re: Complete this drawing and make the machine.
Actually patents help distribute knowledge that would otherwise be kept under 'armed security' as company secrets. Patents allow the holders rights with the assumption that it will become free to the public after it expires.
The question to patent or not is a no-brainer. Even though 'the chinese' will make cheaper versions, you will still get a portion of the goldmine. If you don't patent, someone else will. How then are you going to feel once someone else patents your idea?
The first thing all patent books tell you are horror stories about people who invented something, didn't patent, and had someone else take the idea, patent it, and have all the rights (plus money that came with it) while the original inventor got zip. After 20 years of litagation, maybe the original inventor got something (as in the LASER case) But even then, only the lawyers really got anything.
If someone is going to make money, (and someone will for a real working device!) it might as well be the one that 'rediscovered it' as opposed to the first person to submit a form after seeing it in the media.
The question to patent or not is a no-brainer. Even though 'the chinese' will make cheaper versions, you will still get a portion of the goldmine. If you don't patent, someone else will. How then are you going to feel once someone else patents your idea?
The first thing all patent books tell you are horror stories about people who invented something, didn't patent, and had someone else take the idea, patent it, and have all the rights (plus money that came with it) while the original inventor got zip. After 20 years of litagation, maybe the original inventor got something (as in the LASER case) But even then, only the lawyers really got anything.
If someone is going to make money, (and someone will for a real working device!) it might as well be the one that 'rediscovered it' as opposed to the first person to submit a form after seeing it in the media.
Last edited by Mr.Umez on Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:50 am, edited 3 times in total.
re: Complete this drawing and make the machine.
(double post, just ignore :) )
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John Collins
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re: Complete this drawing and make the machine.
I agree with ME. Release the information everyway which way and make sure it doesn't get buried. I believe you can't patent something once it's in the public domain?
Normally I'd agee with you Jim, but I think this comes under 'special circumstances' and although I'm not a believer in conspiracy theories, it seems sensible to me to leave any government interaction out of the loop, thus preventing 'D' notices and whatever methods you have in the USA to bury an invention in the name of national security.
John Collins
Normally I'd agee with you Jim, but I think this comes under 'special circumstances' and although I'm not a believer in conspiracy theories, it seems sensible to me to leave any government interaction out of the loop, thus preventing 'D' notices and whatever methods you have in the USA to bury an invention in the name of national security.
John Collins