Meet the Clockmaker: Cracking Bessler's Code

[spinner361]

I am not at my PC with the software right now. Is the dampened spring element a spring object, or does it have to be added to the spring? If it has to be added, what is the best way to add it?

Also, I would like to add appropriate friction to pin joints. Is there a way to do this?

Finally, is there a way to add air friction without actually blowing wind? I am not imagining that the device will be sitting on a mountain top.

[jim_mich]

I learned that a wordwide patent costs about $10,000.00 with a patent lawyer's assistance.

I think $10,000.00 is very low. There are so many variables. It all depends on how much time the lawyers, draftsmans, and office help spent on your patent. Also does the lawyer have a fancy office or does he work out of his home? Is the lawyer world famous or a back woods hick? Just like all else, you get what you pay for, well sometimes.

A good rough estimate for a patent is the price of a new car. Look at what cars your lawyer owns and drives.

Or you can do-it-yourself. Learn how to write a patent and how make the drawings. Then do the best you can. Take the results to a patent 'agent' for proof reading and corrections. You will save a bundle of money. You might even end up writing a better patent because YOU KNOW MORE about your idea than anyone else. The lawyer just takes what you say and puts it into proper words. If he fails to understand you, well...

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A dampened spring is different from a standard spring.

You can add pin joint friction, I never do. I just add some air resistance for testing. The program will figure air resistance based on object speed and size, and the air resistance value that you set.

[rlortie]

Some interested in patent procurement may find this link of interest.
I sent it to Claudio when he was attempting to get an international patent.

http://www.patentcafe.com/

I do not know if he followed through or not.

Ralph

[ken_behrendt]

Spinner wrote:

I could be wrong, but I find it hard to conceptualize that he had two opposite running self-starting mechanisms in the bi-directional wheel that ran half as fast instead of the two mechanisms coming closer to cancelling each other out.

No, I think you are misunderstanding what I said. I believe that in Bessler's two-directional wheels, the individual one-directional wheel that was forced to undergo retrograde motion would, via the extra gravity activated locking mechanism present, be disabled so that its various weights would remain at their "neutral" position and against their stops. In this configuration, the wheel undergoing retrograde motion would then keep the CG of its weights at the center of the drum's axle at all times. This inactive wheel's weights would then be along for the ride provided by the other active one-directional wheel that was turning in the direction it was designed to turn in.

You also asked:

Is the dampened spring element a spring object, or does it have to be added to the spring? If it has to be added, what is the best way to add it?

The dampened spring element is exactly like a regular spring, but you'll notice that its icon has that extra thing attached to it that looks like a hydraulic shock absorber. On its Properties box you can adjust the properties of the shock absorber part to change how quickly it will dampen oscillations that the spring is undergoing. I rarely use this tool because I am not convinced Bessler used them (assuming they were availble in the early 17th century). During high speed gravity wheel rotation, I think it is important not to dampen the actions of any restortion springs in the wheel. There will be plenty of CF to do that...why make matters worse?


Jim wrote:

Take the results to a patent 'agent' for proof reading and corrections. You will save a bundle of money.

If and when I finally pursue patents on my designs, I will be following this sage advice. The more you can do yourself, the lower your cost will be. I think I found a link on that PatentCafe site once that Ralph mentioned that led to a small group of patent agents who had a nice little package of services for the inventor. I think they charged a flat fee of about $1800 that included all of the preparation needed for the application. You might want to try finding them. And, of course, as Jim suggested, you should read up on the process beforehand so that you will have an idea of what is involved.


ken

[spinner361]

I added the spring dampers. I still have a curve of acceleration over the entire runtime, and it is running much faster than without springs. But at 900 seconds, the thing just explodes. Is this W2MD, or a need for stronger parts? There are red lines everywhere.

I had thought that air resistance was wind speed. I am not sure why. What value should I be aiming for?

I agree with all of you about saving money. I guess I was just getting excited.

[spinner361]

I figured out why the spring works, on top of the original idea that it has zero counter-torque.

[jim_mich]

Ah, yes. The infamous exploding model! This is a problem with wm2d. Some consider it a bug. Sooner or later all models seem to explode. There are settings that will make it run longer before exploding, but they also slow the computation to a crawl. I don't think wm2d was ever really designed to run for long experiments, yet it is the perfect tool for exploring perpetual motion wheels.

The exploding is supposedly caused by overlap penetration of one object by another. It's like sticking your finger into a balloon, it must get pushed back out. But for some reason, when the penetration happens to be just right, it pushes back with explosive force, ripping the whole model apart. Setting both the overlap error and the time step smaller helps extend the time before it happens.

[spinner361]

I imagine the overlap error is an issue. I have seen the results of this myself when continuing past an overlap error. I believe it is a bug when a model runs for several rotations, nothing seems out of the ordinary, then BOOM.

I did notice that something in the exploding model which was not right - perhaps I accidentally dragged something, because even a reset did not bring it back. I have started from the original without the error, and it is OK so far at nearly 2000 seconds. The acceleration is leveling out. Spring force is 24000.

[spinner361]

Upon further investigation of the explosion - I noticed some small red lines at pivot joints that grew larger over time, causing the parts to appear as if they were moving in slightly different paths. Eventually the explosion occurred. This problem was present every time with dampened springs, but not with regular springs. I did not see a noticable difference in performance between the two spring styles in my design. I set the accuracy as tight as it can get with both spring styles.

[spinner361]

I did a little research on springs by talking to the sales department at a particular spring manufacturing company. "k" stands for pounds per inch. So a spring that is 1000k would require 1000 pounds of force to stretch one inch, 2000 pounds of force to stretch two inches, etc. The salesman told me that a 1000k spring would probably be the largest spring he has ever seen.

[Jon J Hutton]

This may be a dumb question to Jim or Spinner...but, where can you get or buy a copy of wm2d, and would you sugest it for an averger programmer. I want to model...of course a pm wheel.

[AgingYoung]

Jon,
If you click on the link in my signature it will take you there.

Gene

[Jon J Hutton]

Thanks,

I downloaded it, and am working on making my first wheel with it.

[ME]

This may be a dumb question to Jim or Spinner...but, where can you get or buy a copy of wm2d, and would you sugest it for an averger programmer. I want to model...of course a pm wheel.

Sorry it's just me...

But Google is a wonderful tool... just go to google.com and enter what you want. For example: http://www.google.com/search?hl=nl&q=wm2d&lr=

But for downloading the program it's easier to go to: http://workingmodel.design-simulation.com/

Edit: ok you have it already

[ME]

I don't know why I am even showing you this after all the doubters here. I should be patenting this. .... etc

I'm wondering why it isn''t mentioned yet: The Center Of Gravity is always 0!

I have rebuild it.. just for the sake of practice.
In the image you see a couple of wheels outside the main one: these are just helper gears and shouldn't be there, but I can't place gearing wheels on top of eachother, but the rotating discs (light blue) are going as they should.
There is also a "push-ball", I use this thing to give a device an initial push to get it going. You can see in the Velocity-graph that the velocity (after two pushes) remains constant. This is only due to the fact that there is no friction.

In short: Sorry, No PM.