Overbalanced wheels, a waste of time ?

[M]

Hello,

find this link very interesting,
especially for researchers in the field of overbalanced wheels...

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/themes/buoyant.htm

[ken_behrendt]

M...

According to conventional physics, energy can not be extracted from an array of weights that rotate along a closed path whose plane is perpedicular to the Earth's gravity field. However, I suspect that there is another Law of Motion in existence which would allow a chronically imbalanced system of weights to continously convert the energy associated with their masses into mechanical energy. This 4th Law of Motion only applies to certain types of overbalanced wheels.

Unfortunately, since, historically, there has only been one such wheel design ever created that demonstrated this new law of motion, we are still at a huge disadvantage when it comes to precisely defining this fourth law mathematically. That, no doubt, will eventually happen. For the moment, I believe that we must concentrate on finding a mechanism that manages to maintain the imbalance in a system of rotating weights. If that can be done, then everything else will take care of itself.


ken

[ovyyus]

Welcome to the forum M - I think :)

How is it that M can make 2 inoffensive posts and end up with an instant negative rep - what am I missing? Could the person/s responsible please let me know what gives them cause for concern with M.

[ken_behrendt]

Bill...

Yes, I did find that rather odd myself. I guess it shows how quirky this whole rep bar business can get, especially for new posters. Well, I hit M's green button and noticed that it pushed him back up to the starting point of "None". After the link he posted, I think he should rate at least one little green dot...


ken

[rks1878]

Good article M. I believe every word of it too.
I think "overbalanced" with shifting/moving weights is impossible too, but "unbalanced" is what Bessler created in his wheel.

I hit the positive button for you, but I think with my fractional multplier, it will only equate to moral support...

robert

Question for the board...Bessler said that the power of his wheels was proportional to the DIAMETER. Why not just add heavier weights????

[AgingYoung]

Ken,

You went from a suspicion...

However, I suspect that there is another Law of Motion

to this conclusion....

Unfortunately, since, historically, there has only been one such wheel design ever created that demonstrated this new law of motion

Would you mind defending the idea of restating the premise or your suspicion in your conclusion?

Also you said, ...

energy can not be extracted from an array of weights that rotate along a closed path whose plane is perpedicular to the Earth's gravity field.

Since no matter where the array of weights are in its 'closed path' gravity is instantaneously acting on them; can they really be considered to be a 'closed path'?


Bill,

As far as I know I don't have a red dot on anyone. If I were aware of any I'd be quick to remove them. My habit is to give green dots to underdogs. I think anyone looking for perpetual motion is an underdog in the scientific world; that's this entire board. I'm interested in what the underdogs think and if they think what I do.

I think M is a skeptic but with an open mind. They're curious if people looking for perpetual motion have considered some of the ideas that have been thoroughly considered. If they have what is it that causes them to still consider perpetual motion a possibility. I'm only guessing. Maybe M will tell us.

Gene

[bluesgtr44]

Welcome M....I like the link. I believe what it says, I don't however, think that is what Bessler accomplished.

Hey Rob...I like that...not over balanced...unbalanced. Very good!



Steve

[M]

Hello,

I just posted this link above, because many Ideas discussed here
have already been tried before.
For me, reviewing all these misleading concepts was like looking in mirror
and sometimes very amusing, too.

But while you are talking about gravity and the laws of motion,
I remember an interesting homepage:

http://www.ekkehard-friebe.de/Krise.htm

Don´t know if you understand german language,
but this man ( with a scientific background ) is convinced
that Newtons first "law" ( nature doesn´t follow man made laws )
needs to be upgraded..

Every object without angular momentum persists in its state of rest or uniform motion in a straight line unless it is compelled to change that state by forces impressed on it.

That means that an object that rotates, will never move in a straight line,
and the circle that it describes when moved by an external impulse depends on the
relation of this impulse to the object´s angular momentum.

Maybe this is inspiring to you....

[bluesgtr44]

Dagnabit! I missed this one, Rob....

Question for the board...Bessler said that the power of his wheels was proportional to the DIAMETER. Why not just add heavier weights????

Because there is a lifting that takes place...The is a pro0prtion/ration at work her, so to speak....if all weights are equal, they are a constant...am I close?


Steve

[rks1878]

Steve,
If the principle is one of shifting weights/ overbalancing, then heavier weights would add power. I know what you're saying...the difference in force say, at the perimeter between the ascending and descending sides, x-pounds, is the same if all the weights weigh 5 or 500 pounds.
Except I don't believe any more in shifting/moving weights.
Any time a weight shifts on an arm or anything else. the wheel everything is mounted on, kicks back out from under it in the opposite direction, and absorbs any force the moving weights create. This is what we're all doing wrong.
This is what Bessler said he could see he was doing wrong, I bet.

[Michael]

Rob how does an wheel kick back on a weight that moves outward on the descending side due to a pull by gravity? It doesn't.

[rks1878]

Michael,

I can't tell if you really believe it doesn't or you just want further explaination.

When a weight shifts, and that weight is on an arm, and the pivot of that arm is not the main wheel axle, it is as if the pivot is the foot of a man who just had the carpet pulled out from under him from behind, while he was pushing on a door to leave the room.

robert

[Michael]

Robert I'm not sure what you are talking about. Didn't your post say shifting weights and kickback? That would have to apply to all shifting weight models I assume. Your argument doesn't work for all shifting weight models.

[AgingYoung]

M,

Thanks for sharing that idea of Newton's first law. I do agree that nature isn't compelled by our understanding of it. It might be that Newton's third law (for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction) is another way of stating the first law (something in motion [or at rest] will remain in motion [or at rest] unless acted on by another force).

My thinking might be along the lines of Ekkehard's in that in the intersection of the straight line force of gravity acting on a mass as it orbits there may exist reactions that although are opposite aren't equal.

Gene

[rks1878]

Michael,

Here's an example....

Which way will it fall? The arrow at the bottom is the direction of force on the wheel. The top arrow is the force of gravity on the weight...
Hope this helps.

robert