Osama's Message to America!

[AgingYoung]

Well, what can I say? In a sense, the entire nation of the United States of America (and several others I can think of) was founded by illegal aliens...

This is not true, Ken. Before you can illegally do something there has to be a law precluding it. There were no laws in America with respect to immigration when the pilgrims moved here.

On another topic, has anybody noticed what is happening over in the Persian Gulf?

Yes I have. I think it's a wise thing to prepare for disaster. Keep a stock of things and rotate your stock. Keep some cash on hand. You never know what might happen.

Gene

[scott]

There were no laws in America with respect to immigration when the pilgrims moved here.

And the Native Americans welcomed and often even supported the first immigrants as long as they were peaceful. Seems most of the trouble started when the immigrants started murdering and plundering their way across the countryside, as a "favor" to the Native Americans, of course.

Gene, it seems to me we should be grateful that today's immigrants are working hard, waving banners, and otherwise trying to join our social and political processes, rather than invading, murdering, and looting, like our own European ancestors did.

Also please remember that the US took Texas and a large portion of the Southwest from Mexico by force, so an argument could also be made that many Mexican immigrants today are simply returning to their ancestral homeland.

-Scott

[AgingYoung]

The Mexican War between the United States and Mexico began with a Mexican attack on American troops along the southern border of Texas on Apr. 25, 1846. Fighting ended when U.S. Gen. Winfield Scott occupied Mexico City on Sept. 14, 1847; a few months later a peace treaty was signed (Feb. 2, 1848) at Guadalupe Hidalgo. In addition to recognizing the U.S. annexation of Texas defeated Mexico ceded California and , New Mexico (including all the present-day states of the Southwest) to the United States.

Two different views of history. One of the rights to land is by treaty. In that particulary treaty we agreed to stop kicking their butts if they would concede some land. Mexican military attacks on American border troops is still happening.

Grateful for immigrants? The point was never legal immigration to America. I have no thoughts on that matter. Illegal immigration continues a pattern of social behavior that's not acceptable.

Gene

[terry5732]

Texas took Texas from Mexico.
They later decided to join the US.
Mexico invaded the US and lost.
They appear to be winning this time.

[AgingYoung]

Yes, Texas still has it's own air force. You never know. Just in case. It's the only state that was a sovereign nation before it was a state and I think we have the constitutional right to succession. There's something to be said for a state that gives citizens a legal right to shoot the repo man for trespassing.

Gene

[ken_behrendt]

Scott wrote:

Also please remember that the US took Texas and a large portion of the Southwest from Mexico by force, so an argument could also be made that many Mexican immigrants today are simply returning to their ancestral homeland.

I look forward to a world wherein each person will be considered a citizen of planet Earth and will be able to freely travel from one region to another without the need for visas, passports, and other such incumberances. Each region will accurately measure the number of available jobs and that number will be made publicly posted on any signs that direct a traveler to that region. In this way, people will tend to naturally distribute themselves so that they do not create economic hardship in any one region.

Eventually, everyone on planet Earth will speak a common language. Like the past defunct Esperanto, it will be some sort of composite language that be easy to learn and will be taught in all of the schools.

Religions will also be standardized and will be based upon a commonly accepted norm of morality. Individuals will still be free to embellish this with their own particular beliefs, but will not be allowed to push them on others via the media.

Can what I suggest ever come to be? I think so, but it may take a few more centuries. But, the ground work for it is being laid today and I can see it everywhere around me.

If it is differences that create the fear and suspicion that lead to crime and murder, then working toward a worldwide system that will minimize those differences would seem to be the way to go to build a safer and saner world...


ken

[terry5732]

What about the illegal space aliens?

[rlortie]

How Long Do We Have?

About the time our original 13 states adopted their new
constitution, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the
University of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the
Athenian Republic some 2,000 years prior:

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist
as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to
exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote
themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that
moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise
the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that
every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy,
which is always followed by a dictatorship."

"The average age of the worlds greatest civilizations from the
beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200
years, these nations always progressed through the following
sequence:

1. >From bondage to spiritual faith;
2. >From spiritual faith to great courage;
3. >From courage to liberty;
4. >>From liberty to abundance;
5. >From abundance to complacency;
6. >From complacency to apathy;
7. >From apathy to dependence;
8. >From dependence back into bondage "

Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law, St.
Paul.. Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the
2000 Presidential election:

1. Population of counties won by: Gore: 127 million; Bush: 143
million;
2. Square miles of land won by: Gore: 580,000; Bush: 2,427,000;
3. States won by: Gore: 19 Bush: 29
4. Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by: Gore: 13.2
Bush: 2.1

Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of the territory Bush
won was mostly the land owned by the tax-paying citizens of this
great country. Gore's territory mostly encompassed those citizens
living in government-owned tenements living off government
welfare."

Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the
"complacency & apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of
democracy, with some 40 percent of the nation's population already
having reached the "governmental dependency" phase.

[docfeelsgood]

Ralph ; That was an excellent post !! there are so many people on welfare and other entitlement programs that they can controll a vote . if a politician does not talk pro welfare and special interest groups chances are he will not be elected . I say take the right to vote away from welfare entitlement suckers and watch the politicans do an about face !! with the national debt at now over 9 trillion dollars i believe it's going to take a lot more than a perpetual motion machine to ever save this situation !! perhaps we should be sharpening our chinese speaking skills . what happened to our social security system ? i thought it was going broke ?? but now they are passing a bill that will enable Mexico to share in our ss system !! talk about that giant suckin sound !!! "Doc"

[ken_behrendt]

Ralph...

Excellent material you've passed on to the board. It looks to me like we are somewhere in the middle of step 7: From apathy to dependence!

Any day now, I expect to turn on the news and be informed that the Chinese have just purchased General Motors!


ken

[rlortie]

Docfeelgood sent this to me. I hope he does not mind me posting it here. I find that it rather fits this thread very well.





MR. PRESIDENT, I'M HEADED TO MEXICO

David M. Bresnahan
April 1, 2006
NewsWithViews.com

Dear President Bush:

I'm about to plan a little trip with my family and extended family, and I
would like to ask you to assist me. I'm going to walk across the border
from the U.S. into Mexico, and I need to make a few arrangements.
I know you can help with this.
I plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration quotas
and laws. I'm sure they handle those things the same way you do here.
So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Vicente Fox, that I'm on
my way over? Please let him know that I will be expecting the following:

1. Free medical care for my entire family.
2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might need,
whether I use them or not.
3. All government forms need to be printed in English.
4. I want my kids to be taught by English-speaking teachers.
5. Schools need to include classes on American culture and history.
6. I want my kids to see the American flag flying on the top of the flag pole
at their school with the Mexican flag flying lower down.
7. Please plan to feed my kids at school for both breakfast and lunch.
8. I will need a local Mexican driver's license so I can get easy access to
government services.
9. I do not plan to have any car insurance, and I won't make any effort to
learn local traffic laws.
10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo from
Pres. Fox to leave me alone, please be sure that all police officers speak English.
11. I plan to fly the U.S. flag from my house top, put flag decals on my car,
and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want a ny complaints or
negative comments from the locals.
12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, and don't
enforce any labor laws or tax laws.
13. Please tell all the people in the country to be extremely nice and never
say a critical word about me, or about the strain I might place on the economy.

I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things for
all the people who come to the U.S. from Mexico. I am sure that Pres. Fox
won't mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely.
However, if he gives you any trouble, just invite him to go quail hunting
with your V.P.

Thank you so much for your kind help.

Sincerely,
David M. Bresnahan

Contributed by Doc and posted by Ralph

[scott]

About the time our original 13 states adopted their new constitution, Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh, had this to say

Excellent material you've passed on to the board.

That was an excellent post !!

This is an urban legend that has been going around for 6 years now.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/tyler.asp

excerpt:

The quote from "Alexander Tyler" is very likely fictitious. His name was actually "Lord Woodhouselee, Alexander Fraser Tytler," and he was a Scottish historian/professor who wrote several books in the late 1700s and early 1800s.

However, there is no record of The Fall of the Athenian Republic or The Decline and Fall of the Athenian Republic in the Library of Congress, which has several other titles by Tytler. This quote has also been cited as being from Tytler's Universal History or from his Elements of General History, Ancient and Modern, books that do exist. These books seem the most likely source of the quote, as they contain extensive discussions of the political systems in historic civilizations, including Athens. Universal History was published after, and based upon, Elements of General History, which was a collection of Professor Tytler's lecture notes.

Tytler's book, Universal history, from the creation of the world to the beginning of the eighteenth century, is available for viewing and searching on-line. The complete text was searched for each of the following phrases:

* Athenian Republic
* democracy
* generous gifts
* public treasury
* loose fiscal
* fiscal
* bondage
* 200 years
* two hundred years
* spiritual faith

In no case was text identified that was remotely similar in words or intent to the alleged Tytler quote.

To me, the funniest part of the whole thing as that people get all worked up about it when in fact the framers of our country were very careful NOT to give us a democracy at all, but a republic, because it was common knowledge back then that democracy was an inferior and fragile form of government.

E.g.
"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine."
- Thomas Jefferson

"Democracy... while it lasts is more bloody than either [aristocracy or monarchy]. Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There is never a democracy that did not commit suicide."
- John Adams

"Democracy is the most vile form of government... democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention: have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property: and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths."
- James Madison

So the real questions are:
1.) Where did that common knowledge go and how did we devolve into a democracy?
2.) Why are we now trying to export one of the worst possible forms of human government around the world by force?

[rlortie]

Scott,

very informative reply to my passed on post, I for one do not believe all I read or pass on for others to interpret. This is why you seldom see my signature on such posts.

In the meantime here is another one for all to consider.

A day in the life of Senator John Glenn (D-Ohio)
JOHN GLENN SAID

Things that make you think a little:

There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq in January. In the fair
city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the month of January. That's just one American city, about as deadly as the entire war-torn country of Iraq.

When some claim that President Bush shouldn't have started this war,
state the following:
a. FDR led us into World War II.
b. Germany never attacked us; Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives
were lost ... an average of 112,500 per year.
c. Truman finished that war and started one in Korea. North Korea never
attacked us. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost ... an average of
18,334 per year.

D. John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never
attacked us.

e. Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost an average of 5,800 per year.

f. Clinton went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent. Bosnia
never attacked us. He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.

g. In the years since terrorists attacked us , President Bush has
liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear
inspectors in Libya, Iran, and, North Korea without firing a shot, and
captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.

The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking. But It
took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch
Davidian compound. That was a 51-day operation.

We've been looking for evidence for chemical weapons in Iraq for less
time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records.

It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to
destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick.

It took less time to take Iraq than it took to count the votes in
Florida!!!!

Our Commander-In-Chief is doing a GREAT JOB! The Military morale is high! The biased media hopes we are too ignorant to realize the facts
But Wait . There's more!

JOHN GLENN (ON THE SENATE FLOOR) Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:13

Some people still don't understand why military personnel do what they do
for a living. This exchange between Senators John Glenn and Senator
Howard Metzenbaum is worth reading. Not only is it a pretty impressive impromptu speech, but it's also a good example of one man's explanation of why men and women in the armed services do what they do for a living.

This IS a typical, though sad, example of what some who have never served think of the military.
Senator Metzenbaum (speaking to Senator Glenn): "How can you run for
Senate when you've never held a real job?"

Senator Glenn (D-Ohio): "I served 23 years in the United States Marine
Corps. I served through two wars. I flew 149 missions. My plane was hit
by anti-aircraft fire on 12 different occasions. I was in the space program.
It wasn't my checkbook, Howard; it was my life on the line. It was not a
nine-to-five job, where I took time off to take the daily cash receipts
to the bank." "I ask you to go with me ... as I went the other day... to a veteran's hospital and look those men ... with their mangled bodies in the eye, and tell THEM they didn't hold a job!

You go with me to the Space Program at NASA and go, as I have gone, to
the widows and Orphans of Ed White, Gus Grissom and Roger Chaffee... and you look those kids in the eye and tell them that their DADS didn't hold a job.

You go with me on Memorial Day and you stand in Arlington National
Cemetery, where I have more friends buried than I'd like to remember, and you watch those waving flags.

You stand there, and you think about this nation, and you tell ME that
those people didn't have a job?

What about you?"
For those who don't remember .. During W.W.II, Howard Metzenbaum was an attorney representing the Communist Party in the USA.
Now he's a Senator!

If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you are reading it in English
thank a Veteran.

[jim_mich]

So the real questions are:
1.) Where did that common knowledge go and how did we devolve into a democracy?
2.) Why are we now trying to export one of the worst possible forms of human government around the world by force?

Scott, those are good questions. The last US president to use the term 'republic' in reference to the United States was John F Kennedy. We all know what happened to him. All US presidents since have called the United States a democracy. The main problem is most people don't understand the difference between a republic and a democracy. Our school systems and public media have erroneously taught us and our children that we live in a democracy.

Inch by inch the US government has taken more and more rights away from its citizens. The citizens are busy with their daily lives and have ignored the government until it is almost too late. We no longer have due process of law. We can now be locked up by our own government and held incommunicado if they think we are terrorist.

Michigan has the largest prison in the world in Jackson Michigan just 30 mile from my home. A few years ago they split it up and gave different sections different names to avoid being call the worlds largest prison. The original prison complex is now a reception processing center. They call the building on the west side of Copper street one prison and the buildings on the east side another prison. The buildings across Parnell road to the south is considered another prison. Down the street is a fourth prison. On and on. About ten miles from Jackson over near Chelsea is the low security juvenile prison.

List of the 47 prisons in Michigan...
• ALGER MAXIMUM CORRECTIONAL FACILITY
• BARAGA MAXIMUM CORRECTIONAL FACILITY
• BELLAMY CREEK CORRECTIONAL FACILITY
• BOYER ROAD CORRECTIONAL FACILITY
• EARNEST C. BROOKS CORRECTIONAL FACILITY
• CARSON CITY CORRECTIONAL FACILITY
• CHIPPEWA CORRECTIONAL FACILITY
• COOPER STREET CORRECTIONAL FACILITY
• G. ROBERT COTTON CORRECTIONAL FACILITY
• FLORENCE CRANE CORRECTIONAL FACILITY
• DEERFIELD CORRECTIONAL FACILITY
• CHARLES EGELER RECEPTION AND GUIDANCE CENTER
• GUS HARRISON CORRECTIONAL FACILITY
• RICHARD A. HANDLON CORRECTIONAL FACILITY
• HIAWATHA CORRECTIONAL FACILITY
• HURON VALLEY CENTER
• HURON VALLEY COMPLEX - MEN'S
• HURON VALLEY COMPLEX - WOMEN'S
• IONIA MAXIMUM CORRECTIONAL FACILITY
• KINROSS CORRECTIONAL FACILITY
• LAKELAND CORRECTIONAL FACILITY
• MACOMB CORRECTIONAL FACILITY
• MARQUETTE BRANCH PRISON
• MICHIGAN REFORMATORY
• MID-MICHIGAN CORRECTIONAL FACILITY
• MOUND CORRECTIONAL FACILITY
• MUSKEGON CORRECTIONAL FACILITY
• NEWBERRY CORRECTIONAL FACILITY
• OAKS CORRECTIONAL FACILITY
• OJIBWAY CORRECTIONAL FACILITY
• PARNALL CORRECTIONAL FACILITY
• PARR HIGHWAY CORRECTIONAL FACILITY
• PINE RIVER CORRECTIONAL FACILITY
• PUGSLEY CORRECTIONAL FACILITY
• CHARLES EGELER RECEPTION AND GUIDANCE CENTER ANNEX
• RIVERSIDE CORRECTIONAL FACILITY
• RYAN CORRECTIONAL FACILITY
• SAGINAW CORRECTIONAL FACILITY
• ROBERT SCOTT CORRECTIONAL FACILITY
• SOUTHERN MICHIGAN CORRECTIONAL FACILITY
• ST. LOUIS CORRECTIONAL FACILITY
• STANDISH MAXIMUM CORRECTIONAL FACILITY
• STATE PRISON OF SOUTHERN MICHIGAN
• STRAITS CORRECTIONAL FACILITY
• THUMB CORRECTIONAL FACILITY
• WEST SHORELINE CORRECTIONAL FACILITY
• WESTERN WAYNE CORRECTIONAL FACILITY

[rlortie]

Scott,

The so called Tyler quote may be fictitious and considered an urban legend. The six year reference I question.

Believe me the quote and the following 8 points were taught to me in high school back in 1955. Back then it was called History class and is now political referred to as "Social Studies"

1. >From bondage to spiritual faith;
2. >From spiritual faith to great courage;
3. >From courage to liberty;
4. >>From liberty to abundance;
5. >From abundance to complacency;
6. >From complacency to apathy;
7. >From apathy to dependence;
8. >From dependence back into bondage

The part about a democracy only lasting two hundred years was one lesson I never forgot. I do not remember the recognized author of the day but it certainly goes back a long way.

Ralph