Can the movement mentioned by Bessler be this ?

[Paul]

Hi at all, in these examples have noticed an interesting and strange WM2D behaviour; unfortunately I am not able to understand if it is an error of the program (glitch) or if it is the exact simulation of that that happens in the reality. Can you also try these two simulations ?. If what is seen is then real there is not doubt: it is a clear "OU" phenomenon and maybe it is really what to which Bessler was mentioning. I would like to know your opinion about this. Could it be a "real world" behaviour ? I insert some screen shot from WM2D and two files in the format for WM2D zipped.

Paul

[Wheeler]

Nice work Paul.

I can not tell, without some a,b,c, or arrows, but I think Ken can help with this simple wm2d sim you are offering.
It looks like it may be a glitch in the system, or you may not have the program set with air resistance.
However if you are getting it to continue,and all settings are correct,Congratulations.
You will of course check and re-check it, but seems like good idea to me.

[ME]

The Pendulum seems indeed like a glitch; I see sudden movements in WM2D as troubled forces.
But it looks a bit like the system I'm exploring

Edit: For a more real life simulation set the pinfriction of both pivot to at least 0.05

[Paul]

Thanks for the answers. This morning I had another idea. It is a little different; if I am able to find an efficient and precise latch system I think that is really possible to obtain the Perpetual Motion. (I suppose that Marchello has already understood this since some day ago, I understood this today)
Good luck to all ! :-)

Paul

[ken_behrendt]

Paul...

Whenever I see the word "latch" being mentioned, then I know a design is in serious trouble. Well, if you intend on making latches using WM2D, then all I can say is "good luck". I went that route last year and quickly discovered that WM2D is not really that suitable for such detailed mechanisms.


ken

[jim_mich]

Ken,

I'm sorry that you gave up after failing to make successful mechanical Wm2d latches. By contrast I didn't give up and I now know how to make formula type latches. I've posted the instructions here for those that are interested.

[ken_behrendt]

Yes, I'm sure that there are complicated "formula" type latches that are possible with WM2D. But, although they may work, what assurance does one have that a real latch can be made to work as they do? This is why, when I did give latches a try, I tried to actually make models of them. I quickly learned how unreliable such a system can be for controlling the movement of parts within a model.

In an actual physical model that worked, a latch would have to be able to engage and disengage rapidly and repeatedly for, perhaps, hundreds of thousands of times during a demonstration of a device. I just think it would be too complicated and failure prone to have been used by Bessler. I see his devices as consisting parts that moved due to their continual change of orientation in the Earth's gravity field and which were completely constrained by stops. Thus, no latches would have been required.

I know all to well that, when everything seems to fail, one is tempted to advance to the next level of complication in an attempt to triumph over the problem. I am trying to avoid this temptation and following Bessler's observation that other "mobilist's" designs failed because they made them too complicated.


ken

[AgingYoung]

A mechanical latch might be a problem but if you look at the engineering of a latch you have two requirements:

(1) It opens and closes holding or releasing something.
(2) It has a timing.

That's an elementary electro/mechanical engineering problem.

Gene

[rlortie]

Seeing as how we can pretty well rule out electro-mechanical use.

I would say that a timed pendulum would make a great activator for a latch release system.

Ralph

[AgingYoung]

Seeing as how we can pretty well rule out electro-mechanical use.

It's obvious Bessler didn't use an electro-mechanical latch. That isn't to say that one wouldn't be helpful in making a wheel that would work.

Gene

[ken_behrendt]

Ralph wrote:

I would say that a timed pendulum would make a great activator for a latch release system.

There is a problem with using a pendulum to control the timing of a latch mechanism. A pendulum has a fixed period of oscillation, but the "frequency" associated with an accelerating wheel is constantly increasing. This discrepancy would seem to rule out using pendulums to controll latches within a wheel's drum.


ken

[Wheeler]

In the wake of what you guys have said about latches, pendulums, and the process of both being used inside a closed system, how would you describe MT13?
In the drawing below, it looks to me as though the latch itself is used as the weights going cw. The pendulum swing locks onto each latch and also pivots it.
This continuous overbalanced system of weight on the right side will always feed the pendulum swing.

The drawing is an idea of what I think could happen if used in a similar refined design.

[Paul]

My new idea does not work at all :-( (as usual)

By "WM2D" I have done many simulations, always using different approaches. For the moment none of these seems to give interesting signals. If we consider how many users here use WM2D and how many different approaches each of them will have tried I start convincing me that the simulation does not serve to anything or serves at least to verify only a few concepts.
IF the Bessler PM story is true and therefore if there is indeed a phenomenon Bessler has found out (I think accidentally, trying very many combinations), it must very probably include also the Centrifugal Force and, why not, some other "field" ?
The pure overbalanced wheel does not take to anything ... only to a headache :-)

As the science teaches and as also we clearly see with the gravity force, in an object in a gravity field is not important the travel way but the level (the height) of this object and a weight in a wheel if is of advantage in one side (or at a moment), it will be of disadvantage in the opposite side (or in another moment). Its like a dog which bites its tail. Therefore:

1) Bessler used some trick (fraud) and no one has noticed this during the observation of the wheel.

2) Newton laws are incomplete... and I consider this to be very improbable.

Do you what think ?

Paul

[snpssaini]

Yes, Bessler used a trick. Trick which rotate the wheel.
Use a trick, your wheel will rotate.
Snpssaini

[Wheeler]

You may first do millions of tests, then you can say this law or that program works or is not real.
First you must have a design of a way a wheel can continue to rotate by itself, then you will know what is truth.

WM2d works for millions of real life designs.
If you can not design a wheel that self rotates, it may not be correctly designed, Correct?