Complete this drawing and make the machine.

[rlortie]

LustInBlack,

When I click on your link above, all I get is "read only" computer garble.
What kind of application is this web site in?

By coincidence I have already built a machine using this same concept. Mine does have some major differences. For one it does not have the levers riding on spokes.

The version "Me" has posted is closer to mine than snpssaini's.

I am still at a loss to understand what the exterior pedal weights are for?
Any explanation would be appreciated.

Ralph

[LustInBlack]

rlortie:

You could paste the link in winamp for example to see the video..
In internet explorer if avi files are not associated with a player, they will open as text.. I believe that is your problem.


Mr. S. ..
Can you tell me if I am on the right way!?

I'll take a look at your arm design tomorrow and integrate into my model !

Thanks !

[LustInBlack]

Okay just looked closely at the arm design, and I think that my arms are alike ..

Tomorrow I'll find the right way to integrate the accelerator/brake .

I'll also post a better Video of the wheel, because the one I posted is too short and we don't see much.

[ken_behrendt]

Ralph asked:

I am still at a loss to understand what the exterior pedal weights are for?
Any explanation would be appreciated.

I think that they are just supposed to be counter balanced cranks which are similar to the ones we see on some of Bessler's MT drawings. Then, again, maybe he used a bicycle wheel which still had the pedal cranks attached to it? If so, then it must have been a small wheel because the only bicycles that I've seen those kind of wheels on were kid's tricycles. But, then again, maybe in India they have larger bicycle wheels with those kind of pedals on them.

Well, if and when we finally get all of the details of this device, then maybe, if I have the time, I'll attempt a WM2D model of it. So far, however, I do not think that it will do any better than Andy's Magnetic Gravity Wheel did. But, I'm trying to keep an open mind on the device...


ken

[ME]

If so, then it must have been a small wheel because the only bicycles that I've seen those kind of wheels on were kid's tricycles

You mean something like this?

[digitaljez]

I have always loved the penny-farthing but never really thought about it except as a compelling image. Seeing it on the these pages, however, my first thought was 'what the heck was the guy who designed that thinking of ?'. From a user's point of view it is difficult to get on and off of, and from a manufacturing angle you have to build two sizes of wheel. Then, of course, I realised the thinking behind it and it made me wonder. Was there something that Bessler did not have or consider, that we take for granted would be there, that caused him to design his wheel in the way that he did ? Are we trying to build bicycles when we should be building a penny-farthing ?

[LustInBlack]

digital:

I can understand why you believe that Mr. S used this bicycle to make his wheel ..

But I don't think you can say that Bessler used that principle since we don't know how he made his wheel ..


Snpssaini : Can you tell us if my simulation is working like your machine!?

What is missing in my simulation !?

I tried for a while at different crank weight systems, but didn't get anything special.


I got something interesting, but I'm sure it's a glitch .. If not, then it could be your idea, but I doubt .

The wheel starts, the rotor is falling with the wheel, wheel turns to 10 rpm, when rotor is at 6 o'clock, a kick and rapid acceleration suddenly appears from nowhere, glitch, or a pin that was offset from center of wheel!? ..

The wheel is now at 100 RPM ..
The rotor swings in the wheel and it keeps spinning, simulation error at that point ..

I cannot find the problem.. I changed the accuracy etc, but it keeps making an error ..

I'll start from stratch and this time integrate my own ideas into it .


Mr.S. Can you give us feedback ?! .. You didn't reply to my last emails.

Thanks.

[LustInBlack]

Okay, I designed this model according to new hints gave to me by email from Snpssaini .

Counter-Weight will move in the range of 8 to 9 o'clock.
I suppose this is to damp the imbalance caused by the weight-rotor and to return the rotor to it's unbalanced state.

Spokes are curved.

Ratio of Center Arm and far arm is 1:20.


The simulation is just too slow, it took 10 minutes to get to frame 2 ..

I need a way to simulate that more quickly .. WM2D is awful with complex design ..

Is there another good simulation program ?!


It was hard to assemble such a thing, but I've done it .

Maybe, the flywheel spokes should be reverse for the design to work .

During some previous simulations, I found that the counter-weight effectively balanced the rotor !

But I cannot say much, the simulation was still long to load, so it was something like 4-5 seconds of simulation .

Screenshot attached.

By the way, my twin-bearings are too near the center, that needs to be corrected.

[rlortie]

Lustinblack,

Yes there is a better way and that is to build it, in this case with a slider on the secondary weight wheel so that you can adjust the distance between axis. You did a good job putting your Sim together, but unfortunately to me it looks like an explosion of a noodle factory.

I too was in communication with Sanjay as I already by coincidence have a real wheel based on this design. it is four feet in diameter. Big difference is that my secondary is only four inches axis to axis. I do not use spokes. Nor do I need eight bearing per lever.

THe idea of curving the main wheel spokes IMO is an improvement, but you still have a ways to go to catch up with me.

Ralph

[LustInBlack]

Catch up ?

You have a working wheel ?!. .
It turns on it's own perpetually !?

Well, as for the design, I based myself entirely on the hints of snpssaini .
I don't mind if it's not pretty right now, I just want to make it work.

I suppose you are saying that he based his design on yours!? .. By using the word coincidental, you are sarcastic right or you are using the word in the sense it was created for ?!

[rlortie]

Lustinback,
[Catch up ?]

Yup! catch up, I am not finished with mine but I feel I am wiser to the design than what Sanjay has released either privately or here on the forum.

[You have a working wheel ?!. .]

No! if I did I would no longer be interested invoving myself with this forum, other than to help others.

[It turns on it's own perpetually !?]

I do not know if it will or not it has been laying on its side now for a matter of months gathering dust, if anything until I clean it up it will be side heavy.

[Well, as for the design, I based myself entirely on the hints of snpssaini .
I don't mind if it's not pretty right now, I just want to make it work.]

I know that and agree, please do not take my explosion of a noodle factory serious it was meant in jest. I just feel that you have to much distance between axis and from experience know that it will cause a binding problem.

]I suppose you are saying that he based his design on yours!? .. By using the word coincidental, you are sarcastic right or you are using the word in the sense it was created for ?!]

No he did not base his design on mine even though he started this whole scenerio the same way last year and quit before posting all the pictures. I do not claim that he borrowed from me or I borrowed from him. I am using the word coincidental in its true meening. If I am walking down the street with a coke can in my hand and bump into you carrying a coke can, does that fit the true meaning of coincidental.

[LustInBlack]

;)

I actually found the noodle factory joke funny ..


I think I can build the snpssaini principle without the spokes too, using a simple gear system with concentric circles. (The same way I designed the curved spokes) .

I was stunned to note that the curved spokes drawing I made was looking like a MT (MT137 but with straight spokes) drawing I saw (it looks like the dream catcher) ..

I send a screenshot of that drawing !


** Ralph : Guessing... Am I right if I say that your idea is to make your weights follow the path outside of the wheel!?
Let's say we use the circles outside of the wheel on this drawing as guides for the weights . . .

[rlortie]

The curved spoke concept starts with MT3 and continues through MT8.

I do not recall seeing dream catcher as an MT drawing.

IMO you do not need gears for this thing. your rendering fits the basic profile, you just need to pull in that secondary lever wheel, Its like a cankshaft in an engine a one inch offset gives you a two inch stroke. I believe that I have already stated that mine is offset four inches for an eight inch stroke. If I were using spokes with sliders I would consider cutting that in half. My design for the weight transference from the inner to the outer is totally different than what Sanjay is showing you.

Ralph

[rlortie]

** Ralph : Guessing... Am I right if I say that your idea is to make your weights follow the path outside of the wheel!?
Let's say we use the circles outside of the wheel on this drawing as guides for the weights . . .

I build most of my designs as well as others using 3/4" MDF board that comes 49X97 inches. It makes for a great four foot disc/wheel. My weights follow a path that is attached to the face of the disc. upon completion a second disc is attached using double nuts and all-thread to hold it together. This also hides the mechanism from prying eyes.

And no! my guides are not circular, but they are angled.

Ralph

[ME]

The simulation is just too slow, it took 10 minutes to get to frame 2 ..
I need a way to simulate that more quickly .. WM2D is awful with complex design ..

If the path is circular, you can use one rod at the appropriate position, instead of a curved polygon plus slider.

btw: I tried it on this design. But the motion doesn't make sense to me. So no pictures from me.... yet!