Have not been following this thread all that close. Your talk with Mr. Woo has caught my interest.
....unless someone builds it and it works
So what is to build, send me some specs and a drawing and I will see what can be put together. Or send me your WM2D file (no script please) and include the measurements preferably in inches and feet.
I've seen from your past posts that you have quite a bit of experience with smot's and many other magnetic devices. To me it depends what the general consensus says (to build or not) because they are much more knowledgeable especially on this subject than I am . Jim Watson's experiments failed to make a closed loop of his famous ramp experiments because of the ramps exit (alum and train tracks)construction.....his experiment proved a gain of 113%. If the ramp can be replaced with a wheel and magentas fixed on its perimeter in such a way as to replicate the path of his experiment then we may have something. After saying all that you can check the design out to see if you think that is what is happening. If not, I doubt if you want to put your time into it.
: "The measured efficiency Jim Watson's experiment (not due to the whiplash effect) is 113.3%... BUT the mechanical losses AFTER the drop of the ball is about 34%... So this explain why the closed loop is not yet obtained. So this is not due to the principle of the device, but only due to the actual means used for catching the output energy ( the glass tube ). This is only a mechanical design problem..."
If the ramp can be replaced with a wheel and magentas fixed on its perimeter in such a way as to replicate the path of his experiment then we may have something.
Funny you should mention this. Last year I did come up with a rotary version of the SMOT, but no one seemed interested in it. I've re-attached the sketch below.
As far as "SMOT39" is concerned, I would not waste any time on it...it is obviously a glitch.
ken
Attachments
Could this work?
On 7/6/06, I found, in any overbalanced gravity wheel with rotation rate, ω, axle to CG distance d, and CG dip angle φ, the average vertical velocity of its drive weights is downward and given by:
Strange no one has replied but many do have lives outside the wheel.
The problem is in short, "that I see with the drawing", that magnets have a strange way to make their own center of gravity where the strongest field is, when metal or another mag is present. Saying that I think the ball would get stuck in the valley of the two magnets of 15 degrees because at that point the force on the weight would be the same from both mags.
I know the answer is there close...but would it be perpetual motion if we use a magnet. If not what would you call it.
This is kind of what I was talking about but even this has a long way to go. Although I don't see the energy getting less....air resistance is on low. The smaller circles are magnets to follow the path of the rotating circle which also has two magnets on it.
I down loaded your latest WM2D of smot45. It reminds me of the Minato Wheel only the stator and rotor have the magnets in the reverse position.
There is a minato as well as an unrelated Minito, they are seperate.
If you really want to get involved in this, and are not a member. I suggest that you join <minatowheel@yahoogroups.com> and check out Eric vogels 'flyingDutchman link.
There you will find numerous magnet motor applications, as well as meet some really dedicated members. I highly recommend this forum for those interested in magnet applications.
I downloaded your SMOT45 model and decided to reduce the air resistance to "low" and set the Accuracy to "Fast". When I did this, the lower spinning rotor with the two "magnets" on it displayed an ever increasing CW rotational velocity!
Either this is another WM2D glitch or you've found a working design!
ken
Attachments
Another WOW! design...
On 7/6/06, I found, in any overbalanced gravity wheel with rotation rate, ω, axle to CG distance d, and CG dip angle φ, the average vertical velocity of its drive weights is downward and given by:
I did, however, earlier today, attempt to see if I could use WM2D to make a 0.5 lb steel ball roll along a rotating circular track in such a way as to keep a drum in a constant state of rotation.
To keep it simple, I just placed a negatively electrically charged circle inside of a 2 ft inside diameter 1 lb polygon rim and then tried to use the electric field between two oppositely electrically charged opposed rectangles to keep the rolling "magnet" inside the drum constantly rolling to the right side of the drum's axle.
Yes, I was able to produce a little bit of shifting in the location of the rolling magnet. But, unfortunately, this did not result in the drum rotating CW while the rolling magnet did the same.
I suspect that my last posted design as well as any variations of it would not be workable.
As far as magnetic motor go...it looks like the Minato wheel is the only game in town at the moment...
ken
Attachments
These types of designs do not look workable...
On 7/6/06, I found, in any overbalanced gravity wheel with rotation rate, ω, axle to CG distance d, and CG dip angle φ, the average vertical velocity of its drive weights is downward and given by:
The drawing I sent to Mr. Woo based on smot 39 (an error model) in my opinion is a could be. So I decided to make another model based on the same theory and it also produces PM. So where does that leave us ......I really don't know unless we physically start making these to prove or disprove them. I did come up with a "kick yourself in the pants isn't that a simple design",it is incredible weak but is obviously a continuos motion machine. I bought the parts and it won't take long to make. It will make a neat toy but it too works on magnets so I don't think it could be classed as a true PMM.
JJH
If all these are glitches, maybe I should change my name to glitchmaster.
obtw....Ken,
I sent a similar drawing that showed a increase in speed on a wheel with magnets a few days ago to Mr. Woo and he said....it isn't a program error if the magnets will continuously push at the right time.......who knows at this point.
Try pasting the following into your Script Editor after deleting the initial lines of code that appear in it after you Open it. This will make you a nice polygon ring with an inside radius of 1 ft, an outside radius of 1.1 ft (thus, an inside diameter of 2 ft and an outside diameter of 2.2 ft), and a mass of 1 lb. If you want to make other size rings with different masses, then just change the dimension statements in the script that I colored red:
Const d2r = PI / 180 'degree to radian conversion value
Const r2d = 180 / PI 'radian to degree conversion value
Dim WM1 as WMDocument 'Working Model document Window
Dim Rim as WMBody 'Create a body called Rim
Dim RimIR as Double 'Rim Inner Radius
dim RimOR as Double 'Rim Outer Radius
Dim MRim as double 'Mass of Rim
Sub Main() '########################### Start ##############################
RimIR = 1 'Rim Inner Radius (to the points)
RimOR = 1.1 'Rim Outer Radius (to the flats)
RSides = 360 'Rim polygin number of outer sides. (must divide equally into 360)
MRim = 1 'Mass of Rim
'######################## End of SetUp ############################
WinMinimize "Script Editor"
Set WM1 = WM.ActiveDocument 'Use current WM document
'------ Make Polygon Rim ----------
Set Rim = WM1.NewBody("polygon") 'Make a polygon
Rim.PX.Value = 0 'Locate the body.
Rim.PY.Value = 0
i = 0
For a = 0 to 360 Step 360 / RSides 'Make the inner sides
i = i + 1
Rim.AddVertex i, Cos(a * d2r) * RimIR, Sin(a * d2r) * RimIR
If i < 4 Then Rim.DeleteVertex 4 'eliminates the three default vertices
Next
r = RimOR / Cos(180 / 12 * d2r) 'Radius to points so thet flats equal Rim Outside Radius
For a = 360 to 0 Step -360 / 12 'Make 12 outer sides
i = i + 1
Rim.AddVertex i, Cos(a * d2r) * r, Sin(a * d2r) * r
Next
Rim.Name = "Rim" 'Give the body a display name
Rim.Mass.Value = MRim 'Set Rim Mass
WM1.SelectAll False 'De-select all
'WinRestore "Script Editor" 'Re-display this editor screen.
End Sub
Please note that I did not write this code, but modified it from a Script that Jim posted a while ago. It's nice because it will allow you to enhance the functionality of your Demo version of WM2D with the ability to make "hollow" rings that can then be attached to circles to make drums or, as I've done, can be fixed to a central point with rigid rods to form a "hamster wheel" like structure.
ken
On 7/6/06, I found, in any overbalanced gravity wheel with rotation rate, ω, axle to CG distance d, and CG dip angle φ, the average vertical velocity of its drive weights is downward and given by:
Every pendulum has a harmonic formula that when you attach another pendulum to it, both work together assisting the swing of the other. The law states any to bodies attached together...if one is swinging the other will transfer its energy to cause the other to swing. Attached is an wm2d pendulum that proves this. Not a glitch.
