Osama's Message to America!

[ken_behrendt]

Just when one thinks that the Iranian government can not get any more bizarre, along comes the following story:


About a week ago, the Iranian Parliament passed a new law that will only affect non-muslims living in Iran.

This new law requires all Christians in Iran to wear red colored armbands in public. Jews must wear yellow armbands and Zoroasterians (yes, there are some still following the teachings of Zoroaster!) must wear blue ones.

Does any of this sound familiar to anybody?



ken

[Trev]

Ken, It's more propaganda rubbish.

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common ... %2C00.html

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news ... 91af82abb3

[racer270]

are we safe.........,turn it up..!

i feal much better now.........., how about you.?



http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/05/ ... 8203.shtml

and this one......too......:)

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/05/ ... 4990.shtml

[ken_behrendt]

Well, last week Osama delivered his third taped message for this year. So far, I have been unable to obtain a complete English transcript of the message to post here. However, from what I've seen, it continues his rantings against the West and says that the "20th" hijacker that was put on trial and sentenced to life in prison in the USA was not authorized by him (Osama) to be part of the the 9/11 attack. Apparently, this is Osama's way of showing the muslim world that America is so desperate to get even for 9/11 that it is convicting innocent muslims.

I was convinced that Osama's next audio tape would be the last before the next attack on American soil this year. However, I must now revise that estimate. I now think that we will have to wait for the fourth tape to be delivered which will contain his final "offer" to the Western powers to withdraw from the Middle East if they want peace. Then, when it becomes apparent to Osama that that offer is being refused, the next 9/11 style attack will come.



There is yet another shocking incident that came to light last week which I notice that the media in the USA is ignoring during this Memorial Day holiday weekend during which Americans honor those who served in the military during the nation's history.

Apparently, last year, following a roadside bombing that claimed the life of a marine, a group marines entered a town north of Baghdad and went on a killing spree during which 24 innocent, unarmed civilians were shot dead. At least 4 of them were women and 3 children and some of them were murdered in their beds as they slept!

There's a big investigation ongoing now about the incident and those involved will, most likely, have murder charges filed against them and could, under military law, receive the death penalty.

The abuses at Abu Grahib prison shocked the muslim world and were a major setback for the West's attempts to fight the terrorists and bring democracy to the Middle East. However, in that incident, no one was killed.

This incident will, of course, be seized upon by Al Qaeda and God only knows how many hundreds or thousands of "holy" warriors it will help them recruit.


ken

[ken_behrendt]

Wow...I just got wind of an interesting story.

Supposedly, the Bush administration has a not so secret plan to, literally, bankrupt the Iranian government so that it can not continue to enrich uranium and make nuclear weapons out of it.

This plan would be put into effect outside of the jurisdiction of the UN's Security Council and involves the governments of the US, Great Britain, France, Germany, Italy, and Japan freezing all Iranian assets and government business in their countries. This is going to be implemented soon because it is becoming apparent that Russia and China are not going to go along with any kind of UN Resolutions that would call for the threat of military action against Iran in order to stop their development of nuclear weapons.

Well, I do not have all of the details yet, but, apparently, Italy and Japan are not fully "onboard" with the plan because they get about 10% of their oil from Iran. Just as soon as the plan is implemented, Iran will, no doubt, respond by cutting off all oil exports to those countries that are participating in the plan. When that happens, expect another surge in pump prices globally.

Will that be enough to stop the Iranians? Of course, not. A similar approach was tried against Libya and, even though that country endured painful sanctions for years, they were still getting to make nuclear weapons until Qadaffi had a change of heart and realized his people needed jobs more than nukes.



ken

[rmd3]

I just saw this topic, and I have to say that too many people know too little about Islam to be talking about it.

Also, equating the governments of countries whose populations are mostly Muslim as representing Islam is a far cry from the truth.

Also, equating all Arab practices with Islam is not reality either.

Why is it I don't share the opinions others on this thread have? Oh, yeah, I researched it thoroughly before making my choice and opening my mouth. I've been a Muslim since 1991.

Peace.

[ken_behrendt]

rmd3...

This thread is not intended to denigrate muslims (whether Arab or non-Arab) in general. The vast majority are good people who respect the lives of other non-muslim peoples. This thread is intended to highlight the dangers of religious fanaticism (regardless of the faith involved) and the threat it poses to civilization in our 21st century.



Well, I noticed that the Haditha "massacre" story I mentioned above (and which happened back in November of last year) is starting to show up on the various international news shows.

Now there is an interesting new wrinkle in the story. It turns out that there may have been an unmanned surveillance drone flying around over the area of the attack on night in question. That drone may have actually recorded images of the marines going from house to house shooting unarmed Iraqi civilians!


ken

[rmd3]

fair enough... I appreciate your reply.

I would put blind patriotism as a form of religious extremism too. There are some places where those two things are embodied into one - and that might be the biggest danger of all.

As a Muslim, there is a teaching that those who go to extremes in their religion will be destroyed.

BTW, with respect to WMDs, as a Muslim and a human being I find them the most reprehensible inventions of all. I was taught that if one does fight in jihad, one must respect the environment, non-combatants, etc. I didn't say that happens in reality with those claiming they are fighting in jihad, I'm just saying that there are rules - like the Geneva Convention (I guess that ain't always followed either, eh, gitmo?)

I can't rationalize anyone having WMDs except as a deterent. An ambition to use such weapons purposefully is criminal.... and I think Iran is probably saying "hmmmm ...North Korea didn't get bombed, and they have them.... hmmmm... Iraq did.... Whachya say boys?."

I say ban all WMDs, but reality says the world says otherwise.

[rmd3]

Here's an interesting talk about extremism. Bishop Desmond Tutu, Sh. Hamza Yusuf, Dr. John Espisito, and a Palestinian woman (I didn't catch her name):

http://www.zikrcast.com/WebAV/TacklingExtremismLow.mo

from http://www.thedohadebates.com

[ken_behrendt]

rmd3 (can you give a first name or nickname for us to address you by?)...

I think that blind allegiance to any sort of belief system can be dangerous. It's good to keep asking questions and, especially, to hold leaders accountable for their actions or lack thereof.

Unfortunately, a lot of people allow themselves to become like sheep who will follow whatever simplistic models of reality that are provided to them by their leaders. This applies to both scientific, political, and religious leaders.

The real universe is in a constant state of change. What may have worked at one time can, in time, become obsolete and actually hold back the progress of civilization.



ken

[rmd3]

Ken,

name's Randall.

And I concur that what works in a given time and place may not work in another time and place. I think extremists within Islam forget that fact, and because of that, leave off key elements of Islam. Some people can't deal with grey area. They have to have it black and white, but that is hardly the case.

The black and white stuff in Islam are things like: a Muslim can't drink alcohol, a Muslim can't fornicate, a Muslim must fast in Ramadan, etc...

Islam's way of dealing with the grey areas was to set up some goals and guiding principles in Islamic law for scholars to deal with new situations as they arose.

The goals of Islamic law are preservation of: religion, life, intellect, property, and lineage/diginity

It's said that any rule in Islamic law can be traced back to the preservation of one or more of those items.

The guiding principles include (but are not limited to):
Things are pure unless there is a proof otherwise,
Certainty in a matter is not removed by doubt,
Customs of a people are considered when deriving legal rulings.
There is no harming, or reciprocating harm,
etc...

In American we pride ourselves on the principle of "Innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt", and that is embodied in the two Islamic principles of "Things (such as people) are pure (innocent) unless there is a proof otherwise (other than innocent is guilty)" and "Certainty in a matter (of someones innocence) is not removed by doubt". There are other applications, of course, but that hits home the most for me.

Islam even has a name for deriving new rulings for new situations: ijtihad.

I actually think in the case of Islam, it is the Muslims who need to look back at Islam in a non-superficial way to discover how timely it is or can be - not because of any inherent rigidity of the religion, but because of the mandated flexibility within the teachings. And then clarify Islam to others (I hope I've done that a bit here - I didn't expect to type this much).

I think Christianity is inherently flexible as well - still there were people who were forced to covert and killed despite the peaceful message of the Messiah. Does that mean Christ taught or endorsed that - no way! I think it is Christianity's flexibility that has let it spread to so many cultures. Islam's flexibility differs in domain and range, but there are similarities. In fact the Quran says that those closest to the Muslim believers are the Christians. I think it says nearest in love.

Whew! ... man, I thought I was just coming here to bounce some wheel ideas around... :)

-Randall

[ken_behrendt]

Randall...

Thanks for the interesting and informative overview of Islam.

I agree that all belief systems will have some black and white issues that adherents are expected to follow so that they can legitimately claim to followers of that belief system. In what I have previously predicted will be the development of a global religion that can serve to unify humanity, we will probably settle on those issues which the majority of the world's relgions accept as black and white. Perhaps it could all be boiled down to 10 moral and ethical principles...somewhat reminiscent of the Ten Commandments of Judaism.

But, then there is still all of the morally and ethically gray areas of human existance that need to be dealt with. Even there, I suspect that some general principles will emerge. Maybe in another century or two we will be there...




Well, there some interesting breaking news with regard to Iran and their ongoing enrichment program. Unfortunately, it's not that encouraging.

Apparently, the Bush Administration is now willing to enter into negotiations with Tehran, BUT will not do it on a "one on one" basis as demanded by the Iranian government. We would join with three of our European allies for these proposed talks.

Amadinejad of Iran has made no comments on the offer yet (he's involved with his father's funeral), but the official Iranian news agency has denounced it as "propanda" which they probably would not have done without some input from him.

Is it "propaganda"? Well, I think the main reason for this offer is to demonstrate to the world how rational the US is and how unreasonable Iran is. I also suspect that the US has already gotten some sort of deal made with the Russians and the Chinese to cast abstention votes after Iran rejects the offer and the matter is taken to the UN Security Council. That will, of course, lead the way to UN sanctions on trade with Iran. Meanwhile the US will be putting its plan into effect to bankrupt the Iranian government.

Will any of this work? Most likely not. Only direct military action will stop Iran's fanatical government from acquiring nuclear weapons and, when that action is taken, expect to experience some serious "sticker shock" on your next visit to your local gas station! But, if you own gold, you'll probably be very happy with its new higher value...



ken

[ken_behrendt]

Well, here's an update on the slowly deteriorating diplomatic efforts with regard to Iran's ongoing uranium enrichment program.

Apparently, the US says it will join with three EU countries in "talks" with Iran, but there is a condition involved that the Iranian's must fulfill. The Iranians must be willing to cease all uranium enrichment while the talks are in progress. The Iranian response? "NO thanks...we intend to keep right on enriching our uranium".

So, there we have it and it does not look like it is going to change. The US will continue to insist that the real reason that the Iranian government wants to pursue the enrichment or uranium is to build nuclear weapons and the Iranian government continues to insist that they only want to enrich uranium for peaceful civilian power generation. It's a stalemate that will, I predict, lead to UN and the US's private sanctions well before the end of this year. The question is: will the US launch an aerial campaign against Iran's suspected nuclear enrichment facilities and when?

Well, I'm still predicting that, despite all of the diplomatic talk, the air campaign will begin before the end of this year. Anytime later than that and the West will be running the risk of Tehran announcing their first successful underground detonation of a nuclear weapon before their processing facilities can be destroyed.




Also, there was an interesting follow up on the possible Marine massacre of innocent Iraqui civilians at Haditha last year. Apparently, now that the military is conducting a more in-depth investigation of these incidents, they are beginning to find other similar incidents!

This whole mess will probably give the terrorists worldwide more than enough motivation to intensify and continue their attacks for decades to come...



ken

[rlortie]

Ken,

Fill me in here, I have been under the impression that the US had trade sanctions and or embargo's against Iran since the fall of the Shah Monarchy in 1979.

An economic search shows that their export value in the 1990's was 15.5 Billion Dollars and their import cost was 23.7 Billion. The US had no part in either imports or the purchase of exports.

Some time back I was having communication with an auto engineer in Tehran. He sent me a picture of an auto that they build there. I wrote back and said, you know that looks just like a French Renault.

After thinking about it, I did not recall seeing or hearing of a Renault here in the US for time. I asked him about this, and he said that there was an embargo on exporting anything built there to the US. Why do we not get them from France then?

Well is seems that Principal purchasers of Iranian exports were and are Japan, Italy, France, the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg (which constitute a single trading entity), Spain, and Germany. By far the leading supplier of products for Iran was Germany, followed by Japan, the United Arab Emirates, Italy, Turkey, Belgium, Argentina, Australia, and the Netherlands.

It would seem that the US has already placed an embargo on Iran when we excepted the Shah and his wife to live here in the US. That was in 1979

Ralph

[ken_behrendt]

Ralph...

You are quite right, we have had import/export bans against Iran since that nasty business back during the late '70's when their "students" decided to take our embassy personnel as hostages for 444 days.

I remember that I could not get any pistachio nuts from my local supermarket and was told that was because all of the American nut companies imported them from Iran. But, several months later they reappeared and where being provided by growers in California. The wait was worth it because I found our California pistachios to be bigger and tastier.


Well, the stalemate between the US and Iran continues. The Iranians have declared that they have no intention of stopping uranium enrichment, but continue to insist that it is solely for civilian power generation. The US, of course, thinks otherwise and, unless the Iranians capitulate, sanctions against Iran should be in effect in a few more months. Expect a cutoff in the production of Iranian oil that will boost world prices even further.

The more I think about this situation, the more inevitable military action seems to be to me. Apparently, even the people of Iran consider it a matter of national pride that they develop nuclear power. But, I wonder how the average Iranian citizen would react if he or she knew that Iran was actively seeking nuclear weapons?


ken