Osama's Message to America!

[digitaljez]

Ken, I find your posts give the impression of someone who is heartily in favour of military action against Iran. You sound like someone looking forward with excitement and relish to the superbowl or the world heavyweight bout, except we are talking about the destruction of peoples families and homes. Is this really the case ?

But, I wonder how the average Iranian citizen would react if he or she knew that Iran was actively seeking nuclear weapons?

I did not realise that it had been established that they were actively seeking nuclear weapons. How do you feel living in a nuclear power ? Safer than if you didn't ? Proud ? Obviously you feel superior. Even your pistachio nuts are better.

Forgive me if I am wrong, but you do seem overly keen when it comes to highlighting Iran's flaws, as you see them, and predicting American military invasion.

Every time I read one of these posts the sketch where they asked people on the street "Which country should America invade next ?" pops into my mind.

[ken_behrendt]

digitaljez wrote:

Ken, I find your posts give the impression of someone who is heartily in favour of military action against Iran. You sound like someone looking forward with excitement and relish to the superbowl or the world heavyweight bout, except we are talking about the destruction of peoples families and homes. Is this really the case ?

Sorry if I gave you or anybody else that false impression. Actually, like Einstein, I am a pacifist and have been a "dove" ever since the Vietnam "Conflict".

However, the sad reality of this world is that, sometimes, when it gets crazy, one has to get even crazier if one wants to survive!

I'm hoping and praying that the stalemate between Iran and the West will be peacefully resolved before the bombs start dropping and God only knows how many innocent civilians are killed. I'm hoping that, like Libya, the Iranians will "see the light" that there are more benefits for the their nation if they stop trying to enrich their own uranium as opposed to if they continue to do so.

Ordinarily, I have no problem with any responsible, safety conscience, stable government developing nuclear technology for electrical power generation, but some of the rhetoric coming out of Tehran is very alarming. Their unelected regime supports terrorist groups throughout the Middle East, has said that Israel should be destroyed, and is currently determined to become a dominant power in their region as a matter of national pride. And, I have no doubt that their development of nuclear weapons is all part of this.

If the West does nothing, then who knows what the consequences of their possession of nukes would be. However, if the West decides to do something, then there is the potential for much immediate loss of life on both sides. The war in Iraq is starting to get very unpopular in the US now and I wonder how our citizens would react if it was announced that we needed to send hundreds of thousands more of our troops over to the Middle East, especially if the draft was started up again! No doubt, the anti-war movement in our country would swing into high gear and all hell would break out here.

Just as soon as we "take out" all suspected uranium enrichment facilities with an air campaign, we will, whether we like it or not, be in a war with the people of Iran which will immediately be felt in the two countries to the east and west of them, Afghanistan and Iraq.

I think it really comes down to a matter of which option will cost the fewest number of lives in the long run. To attack or not to attack...that is the question...

Hopefully, the Iranian regime is just playing hardball at the moment and will capitulate to the demands of the UN as the pressure mounts.


ken

[ken_behrendt]

Well, there may be some good news with respect to the issue of Iran's enrichment of uranium.

Yesterday, Koffi Annan, the Secretary General of the UN called President Amadinejad over in Tehran and asked him to cool his rhetoric and give careful consideration to the "deal" that the West will shortly make with him if Iran ceases uranium enrichment.

Then, later in the day, Amadinejad made a speech and said that, although Iran has a "right" to enrich uranium, they were will to listen to any offers made. He then went on to reiterate that Iran has no interest in making nuclear weapons. His boss, Ayatollah Kahmeni issued a statement that the possession of nuclear weapons is contrary to the teachings of the Koran.

Apparently, the government of Iran has so stirred up that nation's populace into equating the enrichment of uranium with national pride, that the deal by the West to get them to cease enrichment will have to be a BIG one. There are unconfirmed rumors that it will involve the West giving the Iranians a nuclear reactor along with all of the nuclear fuel they will need for it.

Will that be enough to get Iran to cease uranium enrichment? Well, the devil will probably be in the details on this. Most likely, the West will not be handing over the latest reactor to them unless its operation and fuel cycle are under careful scrutiny and control by the IAEA.

Will Iran go for such a deal? Perhaps. But, it could just be a smokescreen to prevent an air campaign while they quietly continue to enrich bomb grade uranium in underground facilities.


ken

[ken_behrendt]

Well, the "tone" coming out of Tehran got a bit more hostile today. The Ayatollah Kahmeni gave a speech and said that Iran has no intention of stopping uranium enrichment regardless of what offers are made to them by the West and that if the US makes the "wrong move" it will jeopardize the flow of the world's oil through the Persian Gulf.

On the surface it sounds like Iran is now threatening to disrupt the world's oil supply if any attempts are made by the West to stop their enrichment of uranium. Such threats have to be seriously considered. The Strait of Hormuz through which a major percentage of the world's oil travels is only 21 miles wide at its narrowest point. It is considered one of the major "choke points" of the world's commerce.

During Iran's war with Iraq in the 1980's, Iranian speed boats began attacking oil tankers with machine gun fire and torpedoes. Several ships were sunk in the shallow waters of the strait and the insurance cost for all of the ships in that region of the world skyrocketed. Who paid for that extra cost? The entire rest of the world!

However, I think that Iran has a problem in threatening the flow of the world's primary energy supply. The "government" of Iran obtains about 80% of their revenue from the sale of oil that moves through that strait. Would they jeopardize that in order to continue enriching their own uranium? Maybe so, if they were confident that they had some other way to get the oil out and, perhaps, to the Chinese who would be only to happy to buy up whatever they have to offer.


ken

[scott]

Hi Ken,

Since American motives are always at best "admirable" and at worst "defensible," I'll give this one a shot:

The people of Haditha (and a hundred other unnamed towns in Iraq ) must hate us for our freedoms, just like OBL and his henchmen. That is why we are justified in killing them for murdering or living nearby to the death of any precious white American boys who might happen to be on a routine military patrol in their neighborhood. You'd have to a be a nutcase Islamic radical to carry out such a heinous deed, or at least to live near such an attack when it takes place. There is no other possible explanation other than "pure evil" to explain such a hideous display of subhuman behavior.

A precious young innocent American boy, doing nothing more than enjoying and protecting his God-given rights as an American, patrolling an anonymous Iraqi street, was killed in cold blood.

Our boys were clearly justified in annihilating a few families in revenge for such a callous, unwarranted attack on American dignity and human rights in general.

How could anyone in their right mind take up arms against the US in the mistaken belief that it might be pursuing an Imperial agenda?

As we all know, you're either with us or against us.

-Scott


P.S.
http://www.fff.org/comment/com0606a.asp

P.P.S.
Oops, I forgot. We're talking about WMD's here. I guess I should settle down, get serious, and believe the US government story like a good American.

[Trev]

Looks like the u.s. govt. is running out of cannon fodder.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtex ... =h109-4752

Maybe the idea is to make all those illegals citizens and then conscript them.

[digitaljez]

Looks like the u.s. govt. is running out of cannon fodder.

That is ominous. What sort of future are they envisaging ? How can a government that has run up such costs already in 'bringing order' to the world even contemplate this. Apart from operational expense it also removes the most able members from the workplace. I guess they think that once they have occupied every other nation on the planet the term 'national debt' will be meaningless.
If this goes through it will set a precedent that, even with his nose trapped between Bush's butt cheeks, Blair will probably be pushing for in Brussels.(If he is not already doing so).

[ken_behrendt]

Scott...

I like to think that the US military is the best trained an most disciplined on our planet and that the atrocities being reported in Iraq are an aberation due to the action of a very few who should have been screened out of the services a long time ago. One would think that a soldier would think twice before murdering innocent bystanders (like an old man in a wheel chair) not only because of the punish he would receive, but also because of the dishonor it would bring to the service and country whose uniform is allowed to wear.

As far as the "real" reasons the US is so heavily involved in the Middle East, I suspect that we will never really know them and they will become a source of speculation for historians and filmakers for decades to come. Some will say that it is all being motivated by corporate greed for oil profits. Others, of a more religious or patriotic frame of mind, will claim that we are there to bring freedom to millions while elimating the theocratic tyrannies that truly oppress them. Still others will emphasize that it is all part of the ongoing war against terrrorism and the mega deaths that it might cause.

Personally, I suspect that it is a bizarre mixture of all of these reasons. But, our politicians seem to forget that in many muslim countries, they make no distinction between their religion and their government and that the various mullahs and ayatollahs are the real rulers. What we call "democracy and freedom" is, to many in these countries, actually considered to be heresy.

Can the West change the Middle East? Well, it's been tried, without success for thousands of years, and somehow this lesson seems to have been lost on political leaders in the West. I suspect that after the loss of life finally becomes unacceptable to the masses in the countries of the West (we're almost there now in the US) that will be the end of the matter and Osama will then be free to proceed with forming his worldwide "Caliphate". After it forms, a new Cold War will settle over the Earth as the West quietly beginning targeting its nuclear weapons on cities and military installations of the new Muslim Empire. Most likely, I'll no longer be around when that happens.


Trev...

I've heard of Senator Rangel's proposal to introduce mandatory military service into the US before. Unless the US is under direct attack, his chances of successfully passing this legislation are next to zero. But...one never knows. The Selective Service in the US is alive and well and continuing to collect names and addresses...


ken

[ken_behrendt]

Well, last Sunday over in Tehran Ayatollah Kahmeni gave a speech in which he hinted that a "wrong move" by the US could "potentially" disrupt the flow of oil through the Persian Gulf. The result of his speech?

The world price of oil almost immediately spiked and the next day, Monday, the US Stock Market's leading index dropped 200 points! I think today it dropped almost another 100 points.

And all of this due to the hint made by a person on the other side of the globe. What would happen to the price of oil and the US Stock markets if actual oil tankers began to get sunk in the Strait of Hormuz? Is $10 USD per gallon gasoline out of the question for the American driver? What would the economic ramifications of such permanent prices be?

Then again, the enormous hardship caused by such an event might just be what it takes to wake up the world and get it seriously committed to the development of a completely solar powered civilization...


ken

[racer270]

http://www.worldthreats.com/middle_east ... or_big.jpg


i think i know.......why. ken .!. its the oil.....

[rmd3]

Anyone interested in the future per a 1997 published work by The Carnegie Endowment For International Peace (...excuse me if I clear my throat here...) with an endorsement on the back by P. Wolfowitz, please see "Strategic Geography And The Changing Middle East". (sorry, forgot the authors' names).

Anyway, according to the book, a nascent WMD program is enough to cause troop movement and a WTC attack greater than the first (remember this is a 1997 book) would also be an excuse.

US troops are in that region for a while... that's my guess... I don't even think it matters who the alleged threats are as long as there is an "other" in the region.

Incidently, the book also has an interesting map of Afghanistan with oil and gas pipelines drawn right across it. Did people know Karzai was an advisor to Unocal?

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and sounds like a duck, it must be a fish because official government sources said so.

later,
Randall

PS. I heard on the radio or read somewhere that Iran has only one centrifuge to make their inriched Uranium... and you need 1500 of those to make enough for a bomb. I don't know the truth of either of those statements, but if both are true... it just makes the fish the goverment is selling more a duck.

[ken_behrendt]

Randall wrote:

I heard on the radio or read somewhere that Iran has only one centrifuge to make their inriched Uranium... and you need 1500 of those to make enough for a bomb

The president of Iran, Amadinejad, boasted in a speech he gave a month or so ago that Iran would have 6,000 centrifuges in operation by the end of this year! I believe him. In fact, I would not be surprised if most of that 6,000 were already in operation! If so, then Iran could have a "battlefield ready" nuclear weapon before the end of this year. Since they were sold already proven designs for nukes by the Pakistani's, that means that Iran can skip any further development and testing and get right to building a bomb.

It is for these possibilities that I am still 100% convinced that the West (mostly the USA) will launch a massive air campaign against any and all suspected nuclear sites in Iran this year.

If that happens, then all hell is going to break loose. The price of oil will skyrocket worldwide, stock markets will crash, and the escalating conflict in its wake will require the US to start up the draft so additional hundreds of thousands of our kids can be shipped over to the Middle East. Casualties will be high on both sides and social "unrest" and civil "disobedience" will be rampant in the cities of the US. It's a very frightening prospect.

That is why is am hoping that the Iranians will back down and accept the lucrative offer that the UN is now presenting to them. Well, in a saner world that might happen, but we must remember that the current unelected "government" in Iran is a revolutionary and apochalyptic one. The top ayatollahs over there may have already decided that Iran obtaining nuclear weapons is all part of Allah's plan to convert the world to Islam and that they have a religious "duty" to develop those nukes no matter what the consequences might be.

Let's all hope (and pray) that it does not come to that...


ken

[rmd3]

Read this...

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/a ... 417fa_fact

"One of the militaryÂ’s initial option plans, as presented to the White House by the Pentagon this winter, calls for the use of a bunker-buster tactical nuclear weapon, such as the B61-11, against underground nuclear sites. One target is IranÂ’s main centrifuge plant, at Natanz, nearly two hundred miles south of Tehran. Natanz, which is no longer under I.A.E.A. safeguards, reportedly has underground floor space to hold fifty thousand centrifuges, and laboratories and workspaces buried approximately seventy-five feet beneath the surface. That number of centrifuges could provide enough enriched uranium for about twenty nuclear warheads a year. " (emphasis mine)

Yikes! How many nukes does the US have? Not that it matters after a certain point, just curious.

-Randall

[james kelly]

No one believed hitler either, when he announced that he would annilate the jews. the president of Iran said That he would blow them off the map. He also said that he would destroy any democracy .....period he went further to say that anyone who supported Israel would be destroyed. In the government controlled paper , it says that they are already supplying nuclear and weapons of mass destruction to operatives already in the u.s. and canada. jim kelly read your newspapers. Listen to the news.

[scott]

Yikes! How many nukes does the US have? Not that it matters after a certain point, just curious.

Enough to destroy all life on earth many times over. But that's ok because we're the good guys.

A more pertinent question might be how many nuclear bombs does Israel have? No one knows because they won't say. But I would reckon enough to destroy the entire Middle East many times over (at least). Oh, but that doesn't matter either, because they're on our side.

The bad guys should just understand that only the good guys are allowed to have nuclear weapons. It's not complicated. What is their problem anyway?

And why do those pesky Iranians have to keep dredging up the past? Blah blah blah the US overthrew their first democracy and installed the Shah... blah blah the West supported and supplied Iraq with chemical and biological weapons that killed at least 100,000 Iranians during its eight year war of aggression... Blah blah which makes Iran, after Japan, one of the world's top afflicted countries by WMDs blah blah blah.

They must be crazy for seeking a nuclear deterrent against the US and Israel. Someone must have forgot to tell them that we're the good guys. Ken and James, why don't you two get right on that.

-Scott