RiddleMeThis

[Besslerrevealed]

Whom was given the credit for the wheel in 1712?

[primemignonite]

The father of the Baron Knigge?

[rlortie]

Hey! Primemem,

That was quite a feat! you just went from a dabbler with one post to an enthusiast with 105 posts in two entry's in a matter of a less than 10 minutes. I bet that you can not only tell my who the h--l Barron Knigge's father is, but who was Barron Knigge.

With the advancement you can make with two posts, I bet you can make Besslers wheel turn. :0)

Ralph

[primemignonite]

Ralph,

Thanks for the compliment, and much appreciated it was.

It was nothing, really, It's just that have some sort of special pull or whatnot with Scott, always in-control from behind that curtain.

As for your wanting to know some about the Baron, he-the-younger was a disciple of Herr Weishaupt, leader and evil genius of the infamous Illuminati of Bavaria at Ingolstadt; he was his right hand man, actually. It would seem as though Bessler's patron's [Landgrave Karl] state was to be the very hotbed of that kind of activity later on. The famous grand masonic congress, where all that plotting to overturn thrones, alters and states, took place in Wilhelmsbad, and was, or is, in Hesse.

The concentrated wickedness that was to transpire later, eventually morphing into the Revolution of the French as dress rehearsal for much worse to occur in Russia, was well after the times of poor Bessler. His years of wheel activity were at just the beginning of, and concurrent with, the official, or organized part Freemasonry's history, at least as I understand it. They themselves put that date at 1717 at London.

The great banking power, The House of Rothschild, completely intertwined itself with the affairs of the successors of kindly old Landgrave Karl, and went on the foment all manner of war and mayhem on the continent, as well as off. The whole scene there after Bessler's sad end, was replete with mysticism, money manipulation and sundried darkness of heart and spirit in old Hesse. It is probably a very good thing that he did not live to have to endure all that mess. As it was, he had troubles enough.

For completeness sake and your interest, I include a likeness of the wicked Knigge below.

As to your suggestion that my talents might allow me to get Bessler wheels to turning, sadly, they are not quite THAT good. As it is with everyone else, evidently, mine too remain still, but thanks for the encouraging thought anyway.

Regards,

James (CIC, BesslerWheel)

[John Collins]

His years of wheel activity were at just the beginning of, and concurrent with, the official, or organized part Freemasonry's history, at least as I understand it. They themselves put that date at 1717 at London

.

Yes James, and spookily the man behind it was our dear friend Dr Desaguliers, curator of experiments for Newton and well-known sceptic of Newcomen's engine and anything else not associated with his own work. He was the recipient of one of the letters extolling the virtues of Bessler's wheel which, I suspect, he filed in the place where we all put trash.

John Collins

[Besslerrevealed]

John Collins and all others,

If you do not know the answer to the question, you will never understand the wheel. To whom was credit for the wheel given?

If you take lightly the answer nor give it the proper consideration, you overlook the true purpose of all the writings that John Collins has so dilegently edited.

Bessler.

[digitaljez]

Whom was given the credit for the wheel in 1712?

My answer to this riddle is that Techstuff has been reborn as Besslerrevealed and is reminding us Bessler gave credit to God. So it was a divine miracle beyond our worldly means ? How does that help us understand the wheel ?
I thought the purpose of John's work was to uncover the secret of the wheel not shroud it in mumbo jumbo.

[Fletcher]

Well said Digger ..

[primemignonite]

Techstuf reborn? Hmmmm . . . could be! Might not Scott be able to make the appropriate determinations, so as to nail this fascinating new possibility down, one way or the other?

Well, whatever the case may be, YES, credit would naturally have been given first and foremost to our Good Lord above. Why attempt to withhold it? On account of sheer spite, or, that we have so little of it in our empty little selves to share with He who deserves ALL thanks for our very breaths and opportunity to experience His endless wonders? MUST we apply all that is lustrous to our coarse-hewn little selves? Little is as little does, alright.

Techstuf reborn! Imagine it!

Well, if this be so, I would expect that soon enough interesting and pertinent quotations from we-know-where will be showing up here and there. Let's DO encourage this, the Tanzanian audience-of-one being beside all possible points, and on account, irrelevant and totally marginalized, so, not-to-worry at all. Agreed?

***************************************************************
Also, this apparently villianous personage whom John Collins has pointed our attentions to - the creature Dr. Desaguliers - he would seem to have been into some fairly awful doings, judging by some of the things I've found out. I would urge anyone interested to do a search and LOADS of juicy garbage will come up on him.

James (CIC BesslerWheel)

P.S. Do let us now GAZE upon his vile, earthly visage:

[primemignonite]

Digitaljez,

You wrote variously:

". . . . So it was a divine miracle beyond our worldly means ? . . ."

Well . . . judging by the spectacular non-success of all those endeavoring for some sign of devices that may move of themselves, I myself would not out-of-hand dismiss this as a real possibility.

". . . . How does that help us understand the wheel ? . . ."

In such a case it wouldn't, naturally.

". . . . I thought the purpose of John's work was to uncover the secret of the wheel not shroud it in mumbo jumbo."

That would be my belief as well, however, I would expect John Collins to go WHEREVER the evidence might take him, this so as to finally obtain of that Grand Unknown, which IS the ultimate objective of all of ours, is it not? If dispensation of Divine Grace upon the head of Bessler was the answer to it all along, then I say: so-be-it.

And further, the fact that Bessler was cheated of his just reward with which to do additional intended good, MIGHT serve as a useful but expensive lesson to us all, this being specifically that we are, in-general, petty, self-appropriating, grasping, in reality envious of one anothers' progress, and, just all-round no good.

Assuming all of that a priori, in terms of reality-based self esteem, from that point on there would be no direction for one to go but 'up', would there? [What a delightful thought!]

I think that would be a fair statement of the main lesson implicit, summing ALL the confluences and aggregations of the matter, if provided such a reality. We shall see what the future holds.

And yes, if perchance this turns out to be THE explanation, then some of what Techstuf wrote for us in the past may be found to have been of some considerable utility, now as then, no?

Regards,

James (CIC BesslerWheel)

[rlortie]

James,

Yes there is a lot of juicy stuff to be found about Dr. Desaguliers
My first hit, lead me here. Check out the column of goodies on the left side of the page.

http://www.todayinsci.com/cgi-bin/index ... /page2.htm

Good old Google has a lot more.

Ralph

[ovyyus]

TROLLS all stink the same stink... look at me, listen to me, talk to me - me, me, me.

[primemignonite]

Ralph,

I shall investigate the provided links. Thanks for them.

Turnabout is fair play, so, here would be one for you: http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/masonry1.htm

I would advise CAUTION on this one though. Some of the sources referenced I know to be at least somewhat questionable, but on the other hand, it does introduce some really novel angles into the subject and the fiendish Dr. 'D' figures RIGHT in the middle of it all with accusations of his having been a murderer!

Honestly, from what I can make out, there would seem to be a gigantic, on-going battle between certain Protestant powers, mainly as represented by Freemasonic camps, and the RCC. It appears as though they STILL desire, after all these centuries, to CRUSH one another out of existence!

There may well be more conspiracy to all the weird goings-on these days, than there is mere theory.

James (CIC, BesslerWheel)

[ken_behrendt]

Considering that about a third of DT gives thanks to God for his discovery, I would say that it is safe to assume that Bessler would have credited his 1712 wheel to God too.

However, it is not unusual for religious people to credit everything good in their lives to God. When something bad happens to them, they then automatically tend to assume that it happened because they somehow failed to please God or because they did something bad and God is allowing Satan to punish them.

As far as I am concerned, I give all of the credit for Bessler's inventions to his own hard work and unwavering dedication to achieve success. In fact, I would say that if anybody wants to duplicate his efforts, he had pretty much better be prepared to travel down the same arduous path. It supposedly took Bessler about a decade and hundreds of attempts before he found the "magic" mechanism that made his wheels defy the then accepted "laws" of mechanics.


ken

[primemignonite]

Ken,

As I wrote before, here quoting myself:

". . . . So it was a divine miracle beyond our worldly means ? . . ."

Well . . . judging by the spectacular non-success of all those endeavoring for some sign of devices that may move of themselves, I myself would not out-of-hand dismiss this as a real possibility.

As time rolls on and positive results do not show up, then the circumstantial evidence in support of the above continues to build. It cannot be but so.

1. Can it ever be proven that the Bessler principle is a purely natural one? YES, when it is re-discovered.

2. Can it ever be proven that the Bessler principle is of super natural origin? NO, for if so it would never manifest except by Divine dispensation which would then render proofs after-the-fact as irrelevant.

3. Can it ever be proven that it will be discovered? Most likely NOT.

4. Can it ever be proven that it won't? Absolutely NOT. [I don't often resort to the use of 'absolutely' or it's variants, for reasons I'm sure you're well aware of.]

So, what are we left with here? Basically NOTHING that can be yet proven and the first one as the best bet, but also there is THE PREPONDERANCE OF CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE! This circumstantial evidence part that we DO have, in fact, does not augur-well for future success! For how many years now have a hundred (?) or so seekers searched, with apparently nothing to show that self-moves? [Close to it, or 'almost', does not count. This long-sought-for effect is like the conditions of pregnancy or perfect, they are absolute; they either exist, or they don't.]

We know the answer to this last question, don't we, Ken?

What continues in fact to substantiate the search, is the expert-witnessed reports which stand as way more than just hearsay or circumstantial. If it were not for those, magnified by the fact of the several illustrious names amongst them, then the whole thing would have been DUMPED long ago, and just laughed off. Yes? No?

All of this does make logical sense to you, doesn't it Ken?

I ASSERT that as work continues and the goods DO NOT SHOW, that the proposition that normally unthinkable answers cannot apply begins to weaken, and therefore admits incrementally of the possibility that there may be, after all, viable ones amongst them.

That's all I tried to say there, Ken, but apparently unsuccessfully. Hopefully this effort will succeed where the other try didn't. [Must I attempt it third time?]

Kindest Regards,

James (CIC, BesslerWheel)