Georg Künstler's Ideas...

[ken_behrendt]

Georg is, obviously, somewhat skilled in handcrafting wooden models and I enjoy seeing what he has to present. However, as many have pointed out here, skill at woodworking does not necessarily mean one has a working device.

Even if he did present a gif on his site showing a full 360° of rotation in the clip... then SO WHAT? That clip could easily have been faked.

If Georg will post some schematics of his device here that people can understand, then we can attempt a CAD model of it and see if, indeed, he really has anything that is workable.



ken

[Fletcher]

Nice build Georg :) I'm a technophobe but couldn't you have a web cam continuously viewing the wheel in operation that could feed to your web page ? People could then log on to your site & view the continuous real time live footage played out over minutes, hours, days, weeks etc. That might be more powerful to your claims & cause than a short looped clip. I can't view it BTW - dial up constraints, so I have to trust others interpretations & comments as accurate.

If you remember Darrell VD had similar claims & a short 90 degree rotation clip to back them up, so you can see that it will probably take more than that to establish credibility from what are essentially (myself included) sceptics until the evidence is overwhelming.

That's not being negative, just pragmatic.

[Georg Künstler]

to all
I can also sent a longer video, no problem. But most of the mailboxes are limited to 5 MB, and so is the mailbox of my provider.

I have a 21 MB video available, so if anybody has a mailbox with this size i can forward the video.

to ovyyus
It is a good point to make a video of 90 degrees and duplicate it, I never thought of this. But the wheel can also run in front of you, and your mind will not accept this simple solution. It must be the mind of Gärtner. When I can not understand it, no one else can. So you are playing the role of Gärtner, ok, I can accept this. History is repeating.

to ken_behrendt
I see no need for a CAD simulation when I have it in reality in front of me.
But if you like to make a CAD, feel free. I pass you the size of the wheel.

Outer Hamster cage has 80 dowels and has a diameter of 2 Meter.
Rotating wheel in the hamster cage has a size of 1,40 Meter. The hole in the middle has a diameter of 40 cm. The rotating massive cylinder in the middle of the wheel has a diameter of 9 cm and a high of 10 cm.

All three are running in the same direction, and the massive weight is breaking the symmetry by rotating. From dowel to dowel, you get a swinging of the 1,40 Meter wheel.

If you need more sizes ask.

the future has begun

Georg

[Fletcher]

Georg .. Perhaps Ralph's mate Denis or perhaps jonnynet (or both) could hop a bullet train & come visit you to take a look & report back about what they found ? How do you feel about something like that ?

[ovyyus]

But the wheel can also run in front of you, and your mind will not accept this simple solution. It must be the mind of Gärtner. When I can not understand it, no one else can. So you are playing the role of Gärtner, ok, I can accept this. History is repeating.

Rubbish. You think I'm here to waste my time unfairly dismissing your or anyone else's claims? You think I've spent the last 30 years researching alt energy with a closed mind? What a joke.

Why support your latest claim of success by accusing others of having a closed mind just because they won't swallow your nonsense without question? That's a weak argument.

You've been claiming success now for years and still you can't prove it to anyone. Where's all your working wheels Georg? Why all the excuses when someone asks for evidence - how hard is it to provide something other than a looped video clearly designed to fake the look of a real working wheel? Something is definitely not right with you mate.

Nothing ever comes of your claims Georg - history repeating indeed.

[Tinhead]

I can also sent a longer video, no problem. But most of the mailboxes are limited to 5 MB, and so is the mailbox of my provider.
I have a 21 MB video available, so if anybody has a mailbox with this size i can forward the video.

Hi Georg,

one alternative would be to upload the video to http://video.google.com/ , afterwards you just have to publish the link here.

The other alternative to avoid email limitations would be a site like this
http://www.yousendit.com/. They allow to send up to 1GB, that should be more than enough :)

All the best,

Rainer

[LustInBlack]

Georg, is that a working wheel !?


Looks like many people are moving toward that kind of design lately .. .

I should read 2 years back into this thread, it's so long . . . .

[LustInBlack]

Georg, you have a PM, I sent you infos on how to upload your video on my server so I can share it here.

Regards.

[Madmax]

I think that somebody on this forum need learn a little about mechanical work before claiming WORKING model. Here is a link to wikipedia encyclopedy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_%28Mechanics%29

Maybe this "WORKING model" means: "model that I'am WORKING on" and then it makes a very big difference.

By the way I don't believe that latest Georg's model could make some external work.

Sorry for the criticism but I just have no more time for too enthusiastic "gifters to the world" who are claiming something without proof.

cheers,

max

[jonnynet]

to me georg's wheel seems to be nothing more then this...

definitely unworkable, if the picture contains all parts. sorry, but I've the feeling that it is demonstrative fraud. the animated gif file isn't a proof, very short and too dark.

[Georg Künstler]

Hi Jonnynet,
you are missing the third part, the massiv rolling cylinder in the hole.

Then your partlist is complete. Look at the video in the middle of the hole.

the future has begun

Georg

[ken_behrendt]

Georg...

I vaguely recall testing a WM2D model of a wheel last year that is similar to what you show. The one I tested, however, had the "massive" weight inside of the inner wheel acting like a pendulum. I think it was supposed to swing back and forth so that the inner wheel would flop over from one set of dowels to the next and thereby continuously throw the CG of the system over to the descending side of the wheel so as to cause continuous rotation. The model I tested did not work. Anyway, I've attached the only image I could find of that model below.

You now claim to have achieved a "working" wheel with only three parts and your design uses a rolling cylindrical weight inside of the inner wheel to achieve the chronic state of imbalance that causes continuous rotation.
Can you provide some sort of sketch of what this inner cylindrical weight looks like?

I noticed from the pictures you posted that the inner wheel seems to have a cage-like structure to it. Does the massive cylindrical weight you use roll smoothly along the inside of the inner wheel or does it also fall over from one set of cross pieces to another inside of the inner wheel?

Anyway, I'm still confused by how the massive weight is supposed to move inside of the inner wheel. If you can post a sketch showing the construction details of the inner wheel and the massive weight it contains, then maybe we can get a WM2D model made of it and see how it looks as far as working is concerned.


ken

[Georg Künstler]

Hi Ken,
look at the attachment.

the future has begun

Georg

[ken_behrendt]

Georg...

Thanks for the speedy reply. It looks like the massive weight is just freely rolling about the smooth walls of a chamber of much reduced diameter within the inner wheel. Looks like a very simple design. I'll have to see what I can come up with using WM2D.

You gave the relevant dimensions of the parts as:

Outer Hamster cage has 80 dowels and has a diameter of 2 Meter.
Rotating wheel in the hamster cage has a size of 1,40 Meter. The hole in the middle has a diameter of 40 cm. The rotating massive cylinder in the middle of the wheel has a diameter of 9 cm and a high of 10 cm.

How important are these dimensions? I mean, does one have to have these exact dimensions to get the wheel to work? Can one deviate from these dimensions and still get results? What is the weight of the massive metal cylinder? Do the weights of the inner wheel and the metal cylinder have to have a certain ration with respect to each other?


While I do not think that this is the design that Bessler used, it certainly is interesting...



ken

[LustInBlack]

Georg, can you explain why the wheel remain in imbalance with that middle weight !?