Good point Ken.
However as we can all clearly see now, Georg is not inviting anyone in the world to actually look at it, so we are actually back to where we have been.
He has nothing to offer and seems to be using the forum to make suggestions of how he hopes we will solve the problems for him.
Then as Bill and others have said he will then announce a very large YES that is my design and say that was what I was trying to point you to.
If you read between the lines, Georg has told us without saying it that he has no working model for anyone to see.
No working machine.
Georg Künstler's Ideas...
Moderator: scott
re: Georg Künstler's Ideas...
JB Wheeler
it exists I think I found it.
it exists I think I found it.
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LustInBlack
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re: Georg Künstler's Ideas...
Ken : Yes I see what you are talking about.. My simulation just proved that.. [The weight needs to go uphill ...]
I tried variations of the center Hole geometry to get it to roll easily ..
I have my own idea, which I believe would actually change the geometry
of that hole so that it is always downhill . . .
I wonder if Bessler actually thought about modifying geometry as he wants..
It's now another track I have to follow ! ..
That's to Georg anyway, because he gave me some other ideas!
Hint : Maybe, a spring can bend into shape under the influence of a weight and by doing so, procurs an infinite downhill geometry by placing that spring in a loop .. ?
I tried variations of the center Hole geometry to get it to roll easily ..
I have my own idea, which I believe would actually change the geometry
of that hole so that it is always downhill . . .
I wonder if Bessler actually thought about modifying geometry as he wants..
It's now another track I have to follow ! ..
That's to Georg anyway, because he gave me some other ideas!
Hint : Maybe, a spring can bend into shape under the influence of a weight and by doing so, procurs an infinite downhill geometry by placing that spring in a loop .. ?
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Georg Künstler
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re: Georg Künstler's Ideas...
to all,
the video's are now uploaded to video.google.com
You can find them under Besslerwheel.
Watch the video, and you will see that the massive cylinder is running uphill.
I think in all your simmulations, the impact of the hole wheel is missing. We have an impact on the downgoing side !!
the future has begun
Georg
the video's are now uploaded to video.google.com
You can find them under Besslerwheel.
Watch the video, and you will see that the massive cylinder is running uphill.
I think in all your simmulations, the impact of the hole wheel is missing. We have an impact on the downgoing side !!
the future has begun
Georg
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ken_behrendt
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re: Georg Künstler's Ideas...
Georg...
I tried viewing your 12 second video clip with my 56 kpbs phone line connection and was only able to view, perhaps, a second of motion. I noted that you also included the sound that the rotating wheel makes.
However, I could not view the motion of the steel weight inside of the central wheel. Apparently, it is the action of this weight that makes the entire device work.
In your last post, you say that the "massive cylinder" is going uphill. By "massive cylinder" are you referring to the central wheel or the cylindrical steel weight inside of the central wheel?
Also, I do not want to sound too suspicious, but I notice that the video only shows one side of the 6 ft diameter wheel. A skeptic would only say that you have some hidden power source located behind the wheel and out of sight that is powering it. Can you provide a video clip that shows the wheel in rotation from a location in line with the plane of the wheel? In this way, both sides of the wheel would be visible so that the viewer could see that there was no power source attached to the axle piece that is out of view in the video you posted.
ken
I tried viewing your 12 second video clip with my 56 kpbs phone line connection and was only able to view, perhaps, a second of motion. I noted that you also included the sound that the rotating wheel makes.
However, I could not view the motion of the steel weight inside of the central wheel. Apparently, it is the action of this weight that makes the entire device work.
In your last post, you say that the "massive cylinder" is going uphill. By "massive cylinder" are you referring to the central wheel or the cylindrical steel weight inside of the central wheel?
Also, I do not want to sound too suspicious, but I notice that the video only shows one side of the 6 ft diameter wheel. A skeptic would only say that you have some hidden power source located behind the wheel and out of sight that is powering it. Can you provide a video clip that shows the wheel in rotation from a location in line with the plane of the wheel? In this way, both sides of the wheel would be visible so that the viewer could see that there was no power source attached to the axle piece that is out of view in the video you posted.
ken
On 7/6/06, I found, in any overbalanced gravity wheel with rotation rate, ω, axle to CG distance d, and CG dip angle φ, the average vertical velocity of its drive weights is downward and given by:
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
re: Georg Künstler's Ideas...
unbelievable!! Georg, what are you trying to proof?! When you watch the whole video, it is obvious that the wheel is slowing down. And what comes in to the miracle of weight going uphill... the same miracle is happening in regular pendulum:) otherwise, the machine looks cool, and if you are not claiming it to be selfrunner, I owe you an apology
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ken_behrendt
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re: Georg Künstler's Ideas...
Jetrix...
But, he does seem to be suggesting that he as a working gravity wheel with such lines as:
Again, the major problem that I see with Georg's wheel is that, as the central wheel falls over onto next set of adjacent dowels on the outer wheel, this action will then cause the outer wheel to rotate and then both the central wheel and the steel cylinder it carries will drop a bit. This would seem to me to require the steel cylinder to be able to roll up the inside wall of the chamber it resides in at the center of the central wheel if its weight was going to cause the central wheel to again repeat its falling over action onto the outer wheel's next set of adjacent dowels.
And for the steel cylinder to rise, it must be provided with energy. Are we to assume that this energy comes from the previously induced rotation of the outer wheel? If so, then one might think that this system could only work if there was no air resistance or bearing or rolling friction present. It would have to be able to recover 100% of the energy imparted to the outer wheel each time it was necessary to move the center wheel onto the next set of dowels.
Anyway, below I have attached a close up of the central wheel in Georg's device showing it during the brief instant when it is in mid-fallover and resting its entire weight, as well as that of the steel cylinder it carries, upon a SINGLE dowel. This should give the viewer an idea of how delicately balanced is the design that Georg claims works.
ken
But, he does seem to be suggesting that he as a working gravity wheel with such lines as:
and:I can also modify it to selfstarting, then the wheel is always out of balance, from begin on.
and:A stopping attempt of the hole wheel, doesn't stop the movement of the rolling cylinder.
The implication, despite his difficulties with English, is that his device is self-motive and maintains a chronic state of imbalance.Watch the video, and you will see that the massive cylinder is running uphill.
Again, the major problem that I see with Georg's wheel is that, as the central wheel falls over onto next set of adjacent dowels on the outer wheel, this action will then cause the outer wheel to rotate and then both the central wheel and the steel cylinder it carries will drop a bit. This would seem to me to require the steel cylinder to be able to roll up the inside wall of the chamber it resides in at the center of the central wheel if its weight was going to cause the central wheel to again repeat its falling over action onto the outer wheel's next set of adjacent dowels.
And for the steel cylinder to rise, it must be provided with energy. Are we to assume that this energy comes from the previously induced rotation of the outer wheel? If so, then one might think that this system could only work if there was no air resistance or bearing or rolling friction present. It would have to be able to recover 100% of the energy imparted to the outer wheel each time it was necessary to move the center wheel onto the next set of dowels.
Anyway, below I have attached a close up of the central wheel in Georg's device showing it during the brief instant when it is in mid-fallover and resting its entire weight, as well as that of the steel cylinder it carries, upon a SINGLE dowel. This should give the viewer an idea of how delicately balanced is the design that Georg claims works.
ken
- Attachments
-
- This is probably one of the most delicately balanced designs that I have ever seen...considering the overall size of the pieces involved.
On 7/6/06, I found, in any overbalanced gravity wheel with rotation rate, ω, axle to CG distance d, and CG dip angle φ, the average vertical velocity of its drive weights is downward and given by:
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
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coylo
re: Georg Künstler's Ideas...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... sslerwheel
I'm afraid this video isn't enough to satisfy the doubters!
This whole Georg soap opera is another nail in the coffin for those of us who are genuinely trying to solve this problem and trying to gain some respect in the process.
People like Georg and their bogus claims are tarnishing our cause and efforts. They're only giving sticks to the skeptics to beat us with!
I ask members not to fall into the trap of praising bogus fraudulent claims cloaked in admirable good craftmanship.
Ye'know blondes are nice to look at but they're still dumb!
I'm afraid this video isn't enough to satisfy the doubters!
This whole Georg soap opera is another nail in the coffin for those of us who are genuinely trying to solve this problem and trying to gain some respect in the process.
People like Georg and their bogus claims are tarnishing our cause and efforts. They're only giving sticks to the skeptics to beat us with!
I ask members not to fall into the trap of praising bogus fraudulent claims cloaked in admirable good craftmanship.
Ye'know blondes are nice to look at but they're still dumb!
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LustInBlack
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re: Georg Künstler's Ideas...
Georg : Comon, this is not 20 Megs of video as you promised you would send..
It's 12 seconds long and shows notmuch and an apparent slow down of the wheel....
The idea is not bad, and the craftsmanship is good .. but with no result, it doesn't worth much . . .
Send a 15 minutes NON-LOOPED video, and it will get deserved attention ...
It's 12 seconds long and shows notmuch and an apparent slow down of the wheel....
The idea is not bad, and the craftsmanship is good .. but with no result, it doesn't worth much . . .
Send a 15 minutes NON-LOOPED video, and it will get deserved attention ...
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LustInBlack
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re: Georg Künstler's Ideas...
Oh and I believe there is an hidden energy source, why the music !? .. To mask the motor sound .. !?
Trivial..
Trivial..
re: Georg Künstler's Ideas...
Lustinblack,
Ii picked up your quote from above,
I bring to you and all members attention, since first posting this concept on page 25, no where does Georg claim to have a running wheel! He claims multi directional and a self starter, Both are easy to achieve with a preset off balance.
To my knowledge he has not claimed that it will run continuously!
The future may have begun, but it is not here yet!
Ralph
Ii picked up your quote from above,
I remind you that Georg lives in Germany and often uses his lack of English to his advantage.Oh I think I understand how your wheel is working . . .
I bring to you and all members attention, since first posting this concept on page 25, no where does Georg claim to have a running wheel! He claims multi directional and a self starter, Both are easy to achieve with a preset off balance.
To my knowledge he has not claimed that it will run continuously!
The future may have begun, but it is not here yet!
Ralph
re: Georg Künstler's Ideas...
the first tern takes 7 seconds ,
then it takes 5 seconds too make the next 1/2 tern.....!
georg ......?
then it takes 5 seconds too make the next 1/2 tern.....!
georg ......?
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ken_behrendt
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re: Georg Künstler's Ideas...
Ralph...
On June 28th of this year, Georg wrote:
To me, and I suspect most of the other members, it sounds like Georg is describing a perpetually turning wheel that he has right in front of himself. What other interpretation can we give to these statements he wrote? Are we to assume that he is only describing a device that turns briefly before it stalls?
ken
P.S.
Maybe this thread has reached the point where, failing to get further specific answers from the inventor, the rest of us begin to debate amongst ourselves what the inventor "really" meant by all of the previous statements he made. Some then see the invention and what little proof is provided for its reality as a revelation while others view the entire matter as just another hoax in a field filled with hoaxes. At any moment now, someone will decide to start a poll of members to determine if Georg's device is for real. Then the thread will fall into disuse and begin to sink down the page it is listed on...until another tantalizing image or two is provided and the "cycle" begins anew several months from now...
On June 28th of this year, Georg wrote:
...But the wheel can also run in front of you, and your mind will not accept this simple solution.
...I see no need for a CAD simulation when I have it in reality in front of me.
...All three are running in the same direction, and the massive weight is breaking the symmetry by rotating. From dowel to dowel, you get a swinging of the 1,40 Meter wheel.
To me, and I suspect most of the other members, it sounds like Georg is describing a perpetually turning wheel that he has right in front of himself. What other interpretation can we give to these statements he wrote? Are we to assume that he is only describing a device that turns briefly before it stalls?
ken
P.S.
Maybe this thread has reached the point where, failing to get further specific answers from the inventor, the rest of us begin to debate amongst ourselves what the inventor "really" meant by all of the previous statements he made. Some then see the invention and what little proof is provided for its reality as a revelation while others view the entire matter as just another hoax in a field filled with hoaxes. At any moment now, someone will decide to start a poll of members to determine if Georg's device is for real. Then the thread will fall into disuse and begin to sink down the page it is listed on...until another tantalizing image or two is provided and the "cycle" begins anew several months from now...
On 7/6/06, I found, in any overbalanced gravity wheel with rotation rate, ω, axle to CG distance d, and CG dip angle φ, the average vertical velocity of its drive weights is downward and given by:
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
re: Georg Künstler's Ideas...
For a wheel that is over 6 feet in diameter, would you call a drive weight that only measures 3-17/32 X 3-15/16" "massive"?
Ralph
Ralph
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coylo
re: Georg Künstler's Ideas...
Ralph, seriously?........I would go back and find the evidence but I just could not be bothered!I bring to you and all members attention, since first posting this concept on page 25, no where does Georg claim to have a running wheel! He claims multi directional and a self starter, Both are easy to achieve with a preset off balance.
To my knowledge he has not claimed that it will run continuously!
.......(erm, try page 5 and 6 of this thread.....what does ovyyus state in his posts?)
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LustInBlack
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re: Georg Künstler's Ideas...
Well, if he has or not said that it's running, it's not that important .
The importance is in replicating and testing the claim .. He said all the
components are there. He gave measures .. And we tried.
If it runs, it runs.. if not .. Then it's not running .
Simple as that .. I don't care if he's trying to cover something, or trying to make fool of us .. I'll try the idea anyway.. since it gives me other ideas by doing so .. It's not useless .
Anyways, it's clear by his actions and replies, that it's not working..
The importance is in replicating and testing the claim .. He said all the
components are there. He gave measures .. And we tried.
If it runs, it runs.. if not .. Then it's not running .
Simple as that .. I don't care if he's trying to cover something, or trying to make fool of us .. I'll try the idea anyway.. since it gives me other ideas by doing so .. It's not useless .
Anyways, it's clear by his actions and replies, that it's not working..