Energy from Still Air

gearhead · Post by **gearhead** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:00 am

John J. Hutton,

You may want to take a look at this site...http://www.kickstart.org/

ken_behrendt · Post by **ken_behrendt** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:21 pm

I got a chuckle out of Max's "methane powered turbine"... LOL!

Mr. Tseung...

I do not doubt that one can use a combination of a water pump and an air pump to force a mixture of air and water to a great height. After all, that stands to reason since one is combining the output pressures from two pumps and lifting an aerated liquid that will have a lower density than that of pure water.

However, the remaining volume of water that arrives at the higher elevation will be much less after any air in it has bubbled off into the atmosphere. One will find that the amount of energy required per volume of unaerated water delivered to the higher elevation will be no less than would be required if the water did not have the air added to it to start with. In fact, the energy required would actually be more since one has to expend extra energy per volume of water to inject it with air before it begins its ascent.

I do not see this system offering any significant advantage over a conventional pumping system.

ken

Jon J Hutton · Post by **Jon J Hutton** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:45 pm

Bowjon pumps. Bowjon pumps use compressed air. There are two models available depending on lift and volume needs. Both models use a simple pole-mounted turbine that direct-drives an air compressor. The air is piped down the well and run through a carefully engineered air injector. As it rises back up the supply tube, it carries water in between the bubbles. The lift/submergence ratio of this pump is fairly critical. Approximately 30% of the total lift is the recommended distance for the air injector to be submerged below the static level. Too little submergence and the air will separate from the water, too much and the air will not lift the water, though there is considerable latitude between these performance extremes. This pump isn't bothered by running dry. Output depends on wind speed, naturally, but the larger Rancher model is capable of up to 9 gpm at lower lifts, or can lift a maximum of 275 feet. The air compressor requires an oil level check twice a year. See the Product Section for more details and output specs.

First used in Australia, around 1980.

JJH

Nothing new under the sun.......

ltseung888 · Post by **ltseung888** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 12:02 am

To Jon J Hutton,

I found the description of the Bowjon Pump at the following website:

http://www.gaiam.com/retail/gai_content ... le_id=1850

Our 4 of 10 arrangement does not need to be used in a well. It could be ground level. We used various air and water pumps that could be purchased commercially. The largest air pump we used was 3 Horse Power. The water pump we used was 200 watts and we varied the water head (1 to 15 feet).

So far, such an arrangement could deliver water and air to almost every height we tried. The existing demo sites vary from 4 floors to 14 floors (50 feet to over 150 feet). The highest building we attempted was 34 floors (over 300 feet).

You can attempt similar experiments. The type of pipes, one way valves and shape of the water and air jets and positioning will affect the delivery rate. The delivery to 5th floor using a 300 watt air pump was approximately 2 gallons per minute in one of our documented experiments.

We only use this to deliver water to the highest possible position with minimum energy. We intend to use our 5th Cosmic Energy Electricity Generators to provide FREE energy to our water and air pumps. Actual product will be many months away.

LustInBlack · Post by **LustInBlack** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 7:10 am

I can't believe you don't have any video of those experiments and free energy blowing fans.

ken_behrendt · Post by **ken_behrendt** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 5:05 pm

LIB...

Even if he did provide videos, there's no way of telling if they have been hoaxed or not. His claims are something that need to be examined in detail and in person. Or, we need to be able to use any schematics he can provide to replicate the devices. Other than that, we will just have to wait around until we can buy such a device and then see that, indeed, it does work.

ken

rlortie · Post by **rlortie** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 5:07 pm

I can't believe he said that he would not be back on this forum until Septemeber. He must have got a new foot operated beach ball air pump.

Oh! by the way I did figure out how to get energy from still air, it's called breathing!

Ralph

Jon J Hutton · Post by **Jon J Hutton** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 5:08 pm

Ok here we go one more time, Mr Tseung, please answer the following,

What is 4 of 10 arrangement you referred to.

What do you mean exactly that you varied the water head 1 to 15 feet.

The delivery to 5th floor using a 300 watt air pump was approximately 2 gallons per minute in one of our documented experiments.

300 watts means little......how many cubic feet per minute of air did it supply. Better yet what was the water to air ratio (cubic inches would be better).

What was the inside diameter of the water pipe up to the 5th floor.

Did you think of putting fine screen in between the check valves of the pipe to keep the air mixed well with the water.

JJH

LustInBlack · Post by **LustInBlack** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 7:04 pm

Ken : I agree !

But he doesn't even have a working video, so it would be surprising he has a working FE machine ..

With a video we could see exactly what is wrong and that's why he doesn't provide one.

ltseung888 · Post by **ltseung888** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 8:56 pm

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 4:33 am Post subject: re: Energy from Still Air

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

4 of 10

In the figure, 1 is water tank. 2 is a water pump. 3 is an air pump. 4 are one way valves. 5 is the exit at great height. ...........

To Jon J Hutton,

Please read my previous post to avoid repeating. You can purchase existing air pumps and water pumps to repeat the experiment. Use the figure in 4 of 10 to help you. In addition, protect the air pump from water damage via additional check valves. Use standard household pipes and one way valves to reduce cost.

Let the group know how high you can deliver water and at what rate. They might believe a third party more.

I am attaching a coming Chinese Magazine Article (Aug issue). You should ask your Chinese friend to review it. It is an interview from a third party.

Jon J Hutton · Post by **Jon J Hutton** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:53 am

I really don't think it is a question of belive or not believe.......The problem is you have ticked some people off here by not taking some simple suggestions openly or by private mail. There is (are) some issues with transparency that you could come clean on. One being you have no idea how the bessler wheel was built using 17th century tools and methods, contrary to what you started your thread introduction with. Start coaming clean and get on with it. Yes I think anyone who makes attempts at something others say is impossible (talking about pm) and sticks with it, has something to offer to this board but this group will tear any one apart who is not honest (talking from experience) and rightly so. I understand now, your lack of giving little information about the pump, and other machines....because you want others to try to confirm your own findings....well..., why not say that, instead of allowing peoples suspicions to gravitate ( no pun intended) to suspicions of fraud, and manipulations. I'll say what I have told you before, and others have told you. If someone asks you something it is probably because they didn't understand the flakey faq or post (benefit of the doubt will say it is a translation problem) restate it and stop refereing to your faq's and previous posts and keep saying it till you get your point across or are proven wrong. If you are wrong or are caught in a lie you will be discredited by some..but, if you come clean fess up, be patient, and go on you will recover. We all have something to hide but not over the simple stuff....come on.

I wouldn't mind building this pump because I think I have a way to make it PM but would you mind answering the questions...

What do you mean exactly that you varied the water head 1 to 15 feet.

Quote:
The delivery to 5th floor using a 300 watt air pump was approximately 2 gallons per minute in one of our documented experiments.

300 watts means little......how many cubic feet per minute of air did it supply. Better yet what was the water to air ratio (cubic inches would be better).

What was the inside diameter of the water pipe up to the 5th floor.

Did you think of putting fine screen in between the check valves of the pipe to keep the air mixed well with the water.

If not just tell me so....don't manipulate me or us.

JJH

ltseung888 · Post by **ltseung888** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:52 am

What do you mean exactly that you varied the water head 1 to 15 feet.

The delivery to 5th floor using a 300 watt air pump was approximately 2 gallons per minute in one of our documented experiments.

300 watts means little......how many cubic feet per minute of air did it supply. Better yet what was the water to air ratio (cubic inches would be better).

What was the inside diameter of the water pipe up to the 5th floor.

Did you think of putting fine screen in between the check valves of the pipe to keep the air mixed well with the water.

varied the water head 1 to 15 feet.
Note that we used a low power water pump. To increase the water flow, we raised the water tank from 1 to 15 feet high.

300 watts means little......how many cubic feet per minute of air did it supply. The air pumps we bought had no cubic feet per minute of air rating. They only had the watts used ratings. The same applied to our water pumps.

inside diameter of the water pipe We used many different size pipes - from 0.6 inches diameter to 1.2 inches. The air to water mixture ratio was estimated from a section of a transparent pipe. The ratio could be changed by varying the output or the check valves at the air and water pumps. The estimate was about 5:1 to 10:1 air to water.

I hope the above would give you sufficient data to start your own experiments. There were at least 5 teams in China who did similar experiments. One of the Universities had taken it as a graduate student research program. I believe they would have accurate and comprehensive data with all the computer controlled equipment.

I told them that I would only be interested in getting the best water rate delivery with the two pump arrangement. But with research universities, they have their own ways. We just have to wait for the publication of their research papers.

putting fine screen in We did not consider that. When you do the experiments and watch the air:water mixture at the transparent pipe, you would see that the fewer things we put in, the better would be the result.

Conclusions from all teams:
The two pump arrangement will send water to a much greater height than using a single water pump with the combined power rating.

To be experimentally confirmed by the Universities:
(1) Some of the energy comes from Still Air.
(2) The air and water mixture coming out will cool the surrounding - achieve the Global Cooling Effect.
(3) The two pump arrangement will use less energy to pump the same amount of water to a given height than using a single water pump with the combined power rating.

You can see that just the delivery of water to great heights has real commercial value. We have pending patents. With this simple application, we do not need investors. We just wait to receive royalties.

jim_mich · Post by **jim_mich** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:14 pm

L.Tseung wrote:You can see that just the delivery of water to great heights has real commercial value. We have pending patents. With this simple application, we do not need investors. We just wait to receive royalties.

No way should you recieve a patent on this. It's old technology. Pumping water to great heights by mixing air into water has been around for many years. I first observed it being used by the well drillers who drilled my water well about 20 years ago. They fisrt pumped water down the center of the auger drill shaft forcing the dirt upward. They did this until they reached sandstone bedrock at about 34 feet deep. They then inserted a 5 inch plastic pvc pipe down to bedrock and used hydraulic cement (hardens quickly under water) to seal the pipe into the bedrock. The water table is at about 15 feet so the bottom of the drop pipe was about 18 feet below the water line. The switched to a 4 inch auger that fit down the center of the plastic pipe and switched to pumping compressed air down the center of the auger. They drilled down past 90 feet as a mixture of air, water and crushed stone rose in a continual gushing stream shooting upward out of the pipe and being deflected sideways by a sheild.

So it's very clear that using air mixed into water to pump the water to great heights (or in the case of the well drillers, from great depths) has been known for many years and is not new nor is it patentable.

Adding check valves might be a new concept and might be patentable. Adding check valves will assist in keeping the air and water mixture stratified (separated into layers) and might help prevent high backpressure from developing which might damage the pumps.

L.Tseung wrote:(1) Some of the energy comes from Still Air.
(2) The air and water mixture coming out will cool the surrounding - achieve the Global Cooling Effect.
(3) The two pump arrangement will use less energy to pump the same amount of water to a given height than using a single water pump with the combined power rating.

(1) and (2) are only partially true and depend on the the details. When air is compressed its temperature rises. If that heat is disapated into Still Air then when the air decompresses is again cools. The net affect on Global Cooling is zero.
(3) is only partially true. It's well known that multi-stage air pumps are more efficient than single stage pumps. So using two pumps may use less energy. That does not prove a gain of energy from Still Air. It only proves you're closer to breaking even and wasting less energy.