Another gravity wheel?

[Jon J Hutton]

Hey guys its me again with another wheel, but this one is an pulse inertia wheel that I have been playing with for several months.

Wanted to run this by ya'll...I know it is not a glitch in the wm2d because I built it using a bicycle tire.

The original build uses one arm like the drawing but I was able to get 7 rotations where as the wm2d only showed 5.

The only reason it shows hope is because after the spring releases, it makes 4 revs. It is a really weak spring that can't even hold the weight against the stop, so it shouldn't be a problem to reset it using the counter balance as a reset weight also. The weight that does the work only travels 5/8th of an inch.

If you want I'll attach the program but only at your request.

Why am I posting it if it showes promise....I need your suggestions on working out the bugs...how to add more arms and a workable release.

Here is the picture.

[Jon J Hutton]

So what do you think.......?

[LustInBlack]

You should post the wm2d file ..

[Jon J Hutton]

Ok.....Give me about an hour 1/2 to get back to the computer that has the design.

[ken_behrendt]

Jon...

All I see here is a wheel which gets an initial "kick" from the energy provided to a weight by a contracting spring. As the wheel rotates there is a big variation in its kinetic energy due to the flopping of the weighted lever which periodically stretches the spring and removes kinetic energy from the wheel to do that. However, overtime, the wheel's kinetic energy drops to the point where there is no longer enough available to lift the CG of the wheel out of its gravitational potential energy well so that it can complete another rotation.

Perhaps you should try tracking the changing locations of the CG of the two weights and see how that is moving during the rotations...


ken

[Jon J Hutton]

Ken,

Your right......All I am trying to show by this, and not show is... the light weight spring is able to, upon its release produce 4 complete revolutions. After that, the energy is balanced out by it flopping around. It is not perpetual motion now but if every turn or every other turn the spring could be reset..then it would produce excess energy and that is with just one arm, if it had 12...then it would be interesting. Maybe the picture and wm2d program will show you what I mean.

[Jon J Hutton]

Here is the program

[Jon J Hutton]

So what do you think............?

[LustInBlack]

It's interesting (I see you are trying to get different leverage ratio with that rope/bar), but I think there is a problem that makes it not work, the spring .. It slowly damps the energy ..

But as Bessler said, it barely runs with 1 arm ..
Did you try adding arms ?! ..

Your previous design was officialy a glitch or it was really working !??
[Twin pendulum system] ...

[ken_behrendt]

Jon...

Thanks for posting the file for the actual WM2D model itself. I tried playing around with it to see if I could get continuous rotation out of it, but I noticed that whenever I made the slightest change in parameters from what you are using, I can not even get a single rotation out of it!

It's obvious to me that the four rotations you got were due to the starting position of the parts and to the storage of sufficient energy in the spring to power the wheel through that first rotation. But, from studying the peaks of the kinetic energy vs. time graph, it's obvious that the wheel is losing KE with each rotation.

Even if you managed to get continuous rotation out of the wheel by carefully tweaking it just right. I think it would stall when the slightest of loads was placed on it.


ken

[Jon J Hutton]

LIB and Ken,

I am working on adding extra arms and what I found is...if you look at the energy difference between the first peak and the second peaks only, show an increase in energy due to the spring releasing moving the weight at the end of the arm closer to the center by 5/8ths of an inch....the best time for the spring to release is between the 6 and 9 o´clock position and easily (it almost resets itself because of inertia acting on the weak spring) reset at the 11 o´clock position. The peak gain continues then slows because the speed of the wheel actually keeps the weights close to the rim even though the spring releases, this due to centrifugal force. The last of what I said is more theory of what will happen if, I can solve the problem of a release and capture to release again. With more arms it is not as fragile. So far I have tested it with just 3 arms. I have built the prototype with 2 arms, 2 plumb bobs, and rubberbands, instead of springs, it acts almost the exact same as the wm2d computer model simulates.

LIB...........I am still thinking on the pendulums.

JJH

[Jon J Hutton]

To give a clearer picture and at the risk of too much transparency I'll post it anyway. I need suggestions on how to make a capture and release for the spring. The energy increase came from toggling on and off the spring connected to the wheel manually. It shows hope with just one bar...with 2 or more it could be quite powerful....imo.

Please tell me what you think.

JJH

[Jon J Hutton]

Once again it is not a wm2d error because I have built this with one arm like it is shown....I just can't get the capture and release built right.

JJH

[rlortie]

Jon,

I have been reading this thread with interest. I see that you are having a problem with your capture and release right in your sim.

While you are simulating I have built it, Take my advice for what it is worth and forget the springs, Make the blue and yellow of same weight, simply let gravity slide lever and weights to the right as it passes 9:00 Make the slide one inch for every three feet of wheel diameter. You should get at least 8 turns out of it if you let go just as the lever slides to the right. Bessler said that with one lever it would barely run, mine is good for 11 turns.

You see, what you have here is levered weights that are at a right angle to the axis. That is where the turning force is coming from, not the springs which IMO are not needed. what is important is the size of your axle which will vary the length of the 90 degree tangent or offset.

Ralph

[LustInBlack]

Or, if you are building it you could test with a solenoid and a circuit .