Vandusen Bessler wheel replication

[Fletcher]

Jim .. Jim Kelly should be able to sort that out for you. It was the same ramp assisted in & out basis for his running designs & he mentioned on several occassions that the ramp curvature & acceleration had to be just right.

[ken_behrendt]

Jim wrote:

You have your weights move a greater distance than Darrell's wheel.
You have opposing weights on the ramps simultaneously.
Your ramps are not located where Darrell has his ramps.
You don't have free fall where no weights are on any ramp.
Your wheel mass and weight masses are not the same as Darrell's

I'm not disagreeing with any of your observations. However, since I did not have all of the details of the Vandusen wheel, I did the best I could using the simplest type of WM2D model possible. My weights, as you pointed out, do not roll upon making ramp contact since my "ramps" only contact pins at the centers of the weights.

Is it possible to draw valid conclusions about Vandusen's wheel from my, admittedly, simplistic model? I think it is.

While varying the precise parameters within any design will definitely alter its performance over short time intervals, generally, this makes no difference in the long term as to the workability of a design. Your more detailed model, like mine, also showed the wheel was unworkable. I think this indicates that the broader catagory of all such design approaches is, in fact, unworkable. That is, I do not believe that any modifications made to this approach would render it workable.


ken

[LustInBlack]

I think the issue here is about the ramp that rubs the power to shift the weight.

Maybe Darrell way of doing it makes the concept workeable ...

I don't think that Ken can take a conclusion that it is unworkable based on so little specifications.

[Michael]

Gordy the person's name is Judd Brooks, I couldn't remember it yesterday.

Stefan there is something else you should consider. I've talked with Darrel through other people and he knows full well of James Randi's million dollar prize he'll reward to anyone who shows a free energy machine. Darrel has told me that he will go for this prize, so why hasn't he taken it?

[rlortie]

Ken,

You keep posting stuff like the following quote, and I respond even though I said I was pulling out of posting. Now one or both of us must have a bad case of foot in mouth disease.

I think this indicates that the broader catagory of all such design approaches is, in fact, unworkable. That is, I do not believe that any modifications made to this approach would render it workable.

I am glad to see that you said "I think this indicates".. Because I took Darrells basic design and and installed a 2 pound 7ounce lever without weights on a four foot wheel with modifications of my own. One lever or spoke when released from a 12:30 position was capable of making 9 full turns with only a 2" stroke. So the fact to state that it "is, in fact unworkable" may be a bit premature.

Disclosure: This post does not reflect any support or defense regarding Darrell. it is based on my own shop research with my modifications to his design.

Ralph

[jim_mich]

Is it possible to draw valid conclusions about Vandusen's wheel from my, admittedly, simplistic model? I think it is.

Ken, you can think what you want. If we are ever to find a working principle it will be something subtle, something that is just a little different. Something many have overlooked. It might be something as insignificant as a large roller on a ramp verses a small roller that's almost to a point connection. The contact location and angle on the ramp is different. (See attached picture.)

There are subtle things about Darrell's actual physical construction that are different than any wm2d simulation. Try hanging 20 plus pounds out on the end of a 3 foot steel rod and you will see the rod flex a little. Then let the rollers slam into the ramps and I guarantee that they will flex. That is not programmed into wm2d. Could this be that little something that produces just enough extra power to make Darrell's wheel keep spinning and even speeding up slightly as he maintains it did? He admits that his 6 foot wheel had very little power while he maintains that it kept speeding up and he had to keep grapping it to slow it down.

I went back and reviewed all 12 movie clips again and noticed that NONE are of the six foot wheel. ALL are after the spokes were cut and extended. What I thought to be the six foot wheel is an early version of the eight foot wheel with larger rollers. The later version has smaller double rollers so they don't need to spin one way then spin the other, waisting energy. I'm assuming the original 6 foot wheel had these large diameter rollers about 4 to 5 inch diameter.

I will not leave any stone unturned in my quest.

Michael,

Darrell needs a working wheel to go for the Randi prize. Currently he has none. He claims that his 6 foot wheel worked. When I used to talk with him (after Pete cut him off and he had rebuilt his wheel bigger) he would say, "Let's stick with what we know works." and would talk about the older six foot wheel.

[rlortie]

Jim_mich,

Not leaving any stoned unturned is one of my favorite statements!

With that in mind, and my June letter from Darrell requesting for help on guide rollers. Here is another stone to turn.

He wants to attach the weights to roller guides riding on the spokes to reduce the present sliding friction. I have not responded to his request as I do not have the initiative to believe his wheel is worth the time.

To get to the point, regarding your above post, what if the rollers that ride the ramps were made up of very small ones attached to the ramp and not the weights they are lifting. They would always be turning in the same direction and could actually add a little inertia in the process.

Or better yet make both ramps large flywheels. They could build inertia and literally kick the weights up to, or out of their latch position. These flywheels would have to be of a radius that when in contact with the weights would only move them the desired distance.

There is one favorable point about Darrells wheel that a lot of us have never approached. That is the very short distance the weights move in comparison to wheel size.

We all think that to shift the ascending weights close to the axle will achieve more downward force. This as Bessler proved is wrong thinking. A balanced wheel will spin for a long time. so if you only move the weights a short distance you still have that balanced inertia working for you gaining downward thrust through velocity and not all by weight imbalance.

Ralph

[ken_behrendt]

Gentlemen...

I ask you all this simple question. If any one of you had a prototype wheel that was continuously running and accelerating, then would you proceed to cannabalize it to make another wheel? Does that make any kind of sense at all?! Wouldn't one want to keep the original working wheel to show others so that, perhaps, they might want to fund the construction of a bigger and more powerful device?

With Vandusen we have yet another case of an individual who asserts that he definitely did it in the past, but now, in the present, can offer no proof, other than his word, that he did it.

To me, if one has a valid design, it will be something that will work despite slight modifications or variations of its parts (and this, of course, is why I am not "bothered" when I try to model a design and must cut a few corners to get it to Run on WM2D). In his writings, Bessler bragged that his design was not that critical and that it would still run even if the weights were not perfectly equal in mass!

I think that in most of these cases of inventors claiming to have done it in the past, that what really happened was that they had a design which had a very small displacement between the wheel's axle and the CG of its weights. Then, for a test, they initially "posed" the wheel so that the CG was directly above the axle. When such a prepared wheel is released, if it also happens to have a high moment of inertia, it will accelerate and may manage to complete a full rotation. Who knows... if the axle bearings are well lubed and there's a breeze from the right direction, it might pick up a bit of KE and manage to make several rotations before stalling.

The excited inventor may stop it after several rotations because he is afraid of a self-destructive runaway acceleration or because he wants to believe it will keep running forever and doesn't want to shatter that belief by seeing his pet wheel stall out. He may even avoid retesting the device or unconsciously decide to destroy it through cannibalization so that he will have a kind of undeniable belief in the back of his mind that all of his efforts really did pay off at one time.


I still believe that there's a way to do this (not with Vandusen's design, however) and, when we finally find it, it is not going to be some tempermental design that requires precise calibration and will only run continuously during a month with an R in it. It will display a gross effect and be capable of robust acceleration...at least initially until Mr. CF catches up with it.


ken

[james kelly]

AT THE present time, I am building a ramp assisted machine , much as I described in detail and Ralph has worked on it. This machine is making a very large weight shift and will make 12 revolutions from a self start from the 1 o'clock position. Like I said before 12 weels or 3 months run time and I would say it works. jim kelly

[jim_mich]

Ralph,
Back in December of 2004 I made a set of drawing to construct his wheel. I made a number of design improvements including rollers on the spokes to reduce friction. I wonder if the parts he wants made are the ones I designed for him?

Rollers on ramps is the best method else you loose energy due to impact forces. The ramps have enough of an impact as it is.

Ken,
You're being a little too sarcastic. Even Bessler said that at first his wheel would only barely turn. Once he understood the principle he was able to improve it.

Darrell is not the brightest light bulb in the room. He admits his 6 foot wheel had very little power. He says his wheel self started when positioned to a certain spoke and kept on turning thereafter, slowly speeding up. Look at his basic design. There is no way to pre-load it. If it is constructed out balance (which it was) it should always act like a pendulum and not finish a full turn. Being not the brightest he thought (wrongly) that making the wheel a bigger diameter would make it more powerful. It didn't have enough power to be of any use. This is how he spend some of Pete's money

Not having enough power sounds like Bessler's wheel, right?

[rlortie]

Ken,

No! I would not dismantle a running wheel. I would stop it and lock it. Find the proper recognized parties to varify it, then turn it loose in their presence. With their confirmation I would not hesitate to let it self destruct if so capable.

Ralph

[winkle]

Ken it looks like you're gettimg some of the flack that Darrell used to be the sole possessor of

good luck with that

i wonder what brought so many to Darrells defence after they baned him from this site

must be a terrible drought of ideas when the fraud section becomes a place to look for the next attempt at a working wheel

[Fletcher]

Personally winkle I don't think any design of this nature has a show in hell of being successful. But we are all looking for an anomaly that just might give an advantage if used in a certain way. The more methodical amongst us simply want to satisfy themselves that they have looked under every stone b4 abandoning an idea & therefore give themselves the chance of finding the conditions that just might allow it to work. It's called being open minded with a pinch of cynicism.

[winkle]

i belive someone that visits this site already bought about ten grand worth open mindedness on this pitucular wheel idea

but mabe he couldn't see the potentual

i wonder what he thinks of this thread

if this idea has any potentual why was Darrell baned

[Clarkie]

Guys, please don't get sucked in by Darrell, it cost me $10k as he never did return my computer, scanner/printer and camera. I funded him and paid for materials and even a shed to house the new big wheel that didn't work.

He is deluded.

Pete.