What happened to the three wheels he didn't smash in a fit of rage?

[Jon J Hutton]

So, John,

If your design works would you apply for a patent, trade secret....or, can you tell us which drawing of besslers, best describes his mechanisim?

JJH

[John Collins]

Lustinblack, I don't know why it has been missed. I never thought of it myself and I've never seen it described anywhere else, and yet it seems simple enough. I'm torn between giving hints and keeping my mouth shut!

Ken, I've always thought your assumptions about the numbers of weights was too single-minded. I've always tried to keep an open mind about that. You may be right however, and good luck to you.

Jon, I've said this before and I'll say it again. For me the patent system holds little attraction. I would rather get the information out about the workings of the wheel and rely on an upsurge in sales of my books plus of course a few lucrative TV deals as payment. At least this way everyone gets to know how to build a Bessler wheel and I don't have to worry about patents and patent protection. I haven't ruled it out utterly but I remain to be convinced that it would be a better way to go. My friend Pete, has offered to assist in patenting such a device should I change my mind and he knows as much as anyone on this board about the process, as he has many to his credit.

John Collins

[LustInBlack]

John : Heh I can feel it from here how frustrating it is to sort what can be said or not as to keep your idea secure .. .

Well I will watch this thread closely for any hints for now on .. ;]

I wish you the best with your idea.. And I also approve your opinion concerning the best way to distribute the concept.

[Jon J Hutton]

John,

Could you at least tell us which 5 drawings you think would most likely lead to a solution.....and out of curiosity how many wheels have you constructed in your quest.

You know if you have it solved you will also go down in history as on heck of a detective. I know many 3rd world countries like where I am could sure benefit from your success. In particular being able to pump water is what is catching my attention.

Keep working hard John, its not just the book deals, money, commercials, or speaking engagements,...there are many that will live or die by your efforts.

JJH

[ken_behrendt]

John...

Well, when I first started my Bessler research, I was convinced that his designs only used 8 weights maximum based on the one clue involving the number of impact sounds being made per revolution by the Kassel wheel. That is probably a good number to start one's research with.

However, I'm starting to realize that only 8 weights is not enough. Most likely Bessler's mechanism was adaptable to a range of total weight count within a wheel. The bottom line, however, is that we really just need the mechanism and then we can try applying it to different numbers of weights within either one or two-directional wheels or various diameters.

I am looking forward to building a WM2D model of your new mechanism to verify for myself that it is, in fact, workable. Once that is out of the way, it will be on to an real 4 ft diameter working model!



ken

[Jon J Hutton]

Ken,

Do you really think that the wheel can be built with wm2d.....i am skeptical. I think we would of found it by now if that were the case.


JJH

[ken_behrendt]

Jon...

Yes, I do believe that WM2D will show a continuously rotating wheel IF one has the right design for the mechanism Bessler used.

I have had a few past models in which, due to random spring vibrations, the CG of the weights was, momentarily, maintained on one side of the wheel's axle and the wheel did, indeed, begin to experience acceleration.

Yes, I am very confident that WM2D will show such a simulation. If I did not believe this, then I would not exclusively use WM2D.


There are a lot of people on this board (me included) suddenly claiming to have "the" secret mechanism Bessler used. Hopefully, this time, one of us will be right and, if so, I expect to see a plethora of individual WM2D models of the magic design once everybody knows what it is.


ken

[MC]

John,

A simple enough design may not mean easily builtÂ…

You must have matched your design against the information in the known collective wheels documentation! I mean the statements and suchÂ…

Has it changed your evaluation of them in terms of their validity? Which ones do you doubt more?

MC

[John Collins]

Jon, I'd like to point you at the relevant drawings but I must ask for your patience a little bit longer.

How many wheels have I constructed? I've lost count but I guess, judging by the number of carcases with so many construction holes in them that when you hold them up to the light it looks like the sky at night, it must be well over a hundred and if you add to these the number of drawings that never made it into construction, several hundred.

Yes the potential for this thing is bigger than any one individual and the time for it is now - that's for sure.

Glad to hear you're giving consideration to other numbers of weights Ken. I was always slightly wary of Fisher von Erlach's statement that there was the sound of about eight weights... I always thought that he must have been uncertain about the number otherwise he could just have stated that there were eight weights. The problem may have been caused by the inclusion of a distracting falling weight or two by Bessler, to confuse.

MC you're right, although this design is simple, there are variables which make it more difficult to get the right arrangement. For instance how long a movement in the range of movement of a lever should one design in to the construction? Too much may lead to perfect balance, because the distance it moved may bring in other forces and that is why I am doubtful that any kind of simulation will ever solve this problem. With simulation your design either works or it doesn't, whereas with a physical build you can see what might need adjusting and make that adjustment.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean MC. I've matched the design against all the witness statements relating to Bessler's wheel, but there is little to go on there anyway. Bessler's wheel is the only example that I know of which reputably worked.

John Collins

[1712]

John Collins wrote:
"Jon, I've said this before and I'll say it again. For me the patent system holds little attraction..... I haven't ruled it out utterly, but I remain to be convinced that it would be a better way to go. My friend Pete, has offered to assist in patenting such a device should I change my mind and he knows as much as anyone on this board about the process, as he has many to his credit.. "

LOL!!

[ken_behrendt]

John wrote:

For instance how long a movement in the range of movement of a lever should one design in to the construction? Too much may lead to perfect balance, because the distance it moved may bring in other forces and that is why I am doubtful that any kind of simulation will ever solve this problem.

I've found that, in general, using shorter levers seems to enhance the shifting of the CG of the wheel's driving weights. If you post the design you've derived here, then I will definitely be interested in trying to model it. If it's workable, then I think I can determine this in short order.

I agree that one can get obsessed with the number 8 after reading that von Erlach counted "about" 8 impact sounds on the descending side of the Kassel wheel. I think Bessler varied the number of weights he used as he moved from his earlier one-directional wheels to his latter two-directional wheels. I suspect that his earlier wheels only needed 6 shifting weights to drive them and that 8 weights were used in the latter larger two-directional wheels to drive the wheel in one of its directions despite von Erlach's apparent uncertainty about the number.

However, once one has the correct mechanism, it may be possible to construct wheels using various multiples of 3 and 4 weights. Thus, one-directional wheels containing 6, 8, 9, 12, or 16 weights might be possible. I've used 8 weights in my research based on the von Erlach observation for convenience because it is easier for me to space my weights out at 45° angular intervals in WM2D models than at 30° or 60° angular intervals.


ken

[Flywheel]

John Collins, can you just please tell us what kind of springs were used? PLEASE?!? With a cherry on top? xD No, seriously though.

[John Collins]

I don't think he used springs. He says he didn't, at least not in the way you mean, and I take that literally. He may have used them but they were not vital to the workings of his wheel. I know others think he did use them and in the end it's just a matter of opinion.

John Collins

[John Collins]

I wonder why you think it's funny that I don't wish to patent, 1712?

JC

[LustInBlack]

JC : I am waiting anxiously for any hints you might give by mistake .. ;]