Pete,
I am of course working with James Kelly. His design and pictures look very appealing. This is a take off of his original that always looked like it should run. His latest modification adds more fuel to the fire.
That is my individual assessment anyway!
I also have two other designs, both have been started that, so far have not shown any reason to discontinue fabrication of them.
IMO I believe I qualify as a horse in the running.
Ralph
Bessler's use of Gravity
Moderator: scott
re: Bessler's use of Gravity
Gentlemen, start your engines and may the best man win.
Jim,
Someone better get there soon or we are all going to get very bored with each other and start to play with 1712 instead.
Pete.
Jim,
Someone better get there soon or we are all going to get very bored with each other and start to play with 1712 instead.
Pete.
re: Bessler's use of Gravity
Pete if it wasn't a retorical question you were asking. I have two designs I was looking at. The one I showed to Fletcher and Rainer I have put on hold for a better part of a year. The second one is old to, but the math was completed in October of 2005. In case Graham is reading this, Graham that's what P.E.G. or P.I.G. was about. It's just a nickname for now for what I believe to be the mathematical proof. From that time it took me a few months to nearly complete the design on paper. I thought I would have had it built sooner that this.
I've been deliberating for the past little while on a proposition. This proof I know of, I don't think, or see how I can be the only one who knows of it. I'm not greedy and at the same time I wouldn't want to lose acknowledgement for what realization I've come to. History is filled with scientists that have happily shared acknowledgement in fields of their pursuits. Whether working individually or together. Here's my proposition. I propose that those that know about this start a group where, we admit that we know this thing, but agree to let others work on their invention. If one person makes a working machine first, then hey, all the credit to him. But he agrees to admit that these others also knew about the principle and were working in their separate directions.
Anyway, I still have to figure out how we could reveal what we know without actually giving it away.
All this of course hinging on whether I am correct or not.
I've been deliberating for the past little while on a proposition. This proof I know of, I don't think, or see how I can be the only one who knows of it. I'm not greedy and at the same time I wouldn't want to lose acknowledgement for what realization I've come to. History is filled with scientists that have happily shared acknowledgement in fields of their pursuits. Whether working individually or together. Here's my proposition. I propose that those that know about this start a group where, we admit that we know this thing, but agree to let others work on their invention. If one person makes a working machine first, then hey, all the credit to him. But he agrees to admit that these others also knew about the principle and were working in their separate directions.
Anyway, I still have to figure out how we could reveal what we know without actually giving it away.
All this of course hinging on whether I am correct or not.
Last edited by Michael on Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
re: Bessler's use of Gravity
Just remember that Bessler points out in the text to MT 20 "Do not get the cart before the horse".. An old term that not only was used in his day but will still popular in my childhood days of the 1940's.
I believe that Bessler's usage of the term meant, do not load the cart or ascending side of the wheel more than the horse can descend with!
Michael.
How can one admit to knowing "the thing" without a hint of what the thing is. How many members have you confirmed as to kowning this thing?
Ralph
I believe that Bessler's usage of the term meant, do not load the cart or ascending side of the wheel more than the horse can descend with!
Michael.
How can one admit to knowing "the thing" without a hint of what the thing is. How many members have you confirmed as to kowning this thing?
Ralph
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james kelly
- Aficionado
- Posts: 497
- Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:04 pm
re: Bessler's use of Gravity
Gentlemen: I am Coming down the home stretch!!!! Get the Roses ready. my alternate fuel engine is ready!!!
re: Bessler's use of Gravity
Firstly, it was not my intention to highjack Jim Kelly's thread, sorry Jim.
I was just interested to know how many of us think we are close to success.
For my part I'm very close to proving the theory without building a wheel, I understand the physics (Newton and Hooke) but am unable to calculate the acceleration of a falling weight on the end of a swinging arm that is also doing work so I need to simulate and prove to myself that I'm not mad.
When I have tested my device I will know, one way or another, if I'm on the right track, this will be in the next couple of weeks, day job permitting.
My design differs from most because the weights DO NOT move in and out of the circle, they move up and down the curve of the circle maintaining a constant radius.
The use of springs is also essential as part of the driving force but it all comes back to dropping a 1lb weight 4' to lift a 4lb weight 1', this was the big break for me, linked to all the work I have done on springs over the last 6 years, it all clicked together.
Latches are also important to control the angle of release of the arm.
I will know soon.
I don't know if WM2 would help me but as I haven't a clue how to use it there's no point in me doing it.
As far as sharing or verifying is concerned I really don't know how that would work but I'm open to suggestions.
Pete.
I was just interested to know how many of us think we are close to success.
For my part I'm very close to proving the theory without building a wheel, I understand the physics (Newton and Hooke) but am unable to calculate the acceleration of a falling weight on the end of a swinging arm that is also doing work so I need to simulate and prove to myself that I'm not mad.
When I have tested my device I will know, one way or another, if I'm on the right track, this will be in the next couple of weeks, day job permitting.
My design differs from most because the weights DO NOT move in and out of the circle, they move up and down the curve of the circle maintaining a constant radius.
The use of springs is also essential as part of the driving force but it all comes back to dropping a 1lb weight 4' to lift a 4lb weight 1', this was the big break for me, linked to all the work I have done on springs over the last 6 years, it all clicked together.
Latches are also important to control the angle of release of the arm.
I will know soon.
I don't know if WM2 would help me but as I haven't a clue how to use it there's no point in me doing it.
As far as sharing or verifying is concerned I really don't know how that would work but I'm open to suggestions.
Pete.
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james kelly
- Aficionado
- Posts: 497
- Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:04 pm
re: Bessler's use of Gravity
PETE; There is more than one way to skin a cat. Once you have any kind of success it becomes easier, because you see things differently. jim kelly
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coylo
re: Bessler's use of Gravity
Why should we believe you Mr. Kelly?
What makes your case any different?......The forum is littered with similar claims that have faded into oblivion - got buried with time! As a result the board has grown reactionless and numb to such claims.
Combined with that your story really stretches your credibility (and the imagination).
Show us a video!.....or something to get excited about FFS!
(but somehow I know that all we're gonna get is the usual, dry, one lined reply that just sucks the life outta me!)
What makes your case any different?......The forum is littered with similar claims that have faded into oblivion - got buried with time! As a result the board has grown reactionless and numb to such claims.
Combined with that your story really stretches your credibility (and the imagination).
Show us a video!.....or something to get excited about FFS!
(but somehow I know that all we're gonna get is the usual, dry, one lined reply that just sucks the life outta me!)
We're still waiting on those pictures!here are some old pictures. may I stress old?
re: Bessler's use of Gravity
Yeah Coylo , I would have to say you're correct with such a statement. Lots of gravy and no meat.The forum is littered with similar claims that have faded into oblivion - got buried with time! As a result the board has grown reactionless and numb to such claims.
Graham
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james kelly
- Aficionado
- Posts: 497
- Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:04 pm
re: Bessler's use of Gravity
I DON'T come in here to do battle.This type of treatment makes me want to shut up and kill. none of you have earned my respect. what reason would I have to lie? Please let me know why I would lie? James L. Kelly
re: Bessler's use of Gravity
Pete .. don't forget John Collins, only days away from completing his build to see if he is correct. There will be others visiting this board who may also be building right now that we don't know about. Gearhead for example said he new the answer but whether he is building or not, he would have to confirm ?
I consider the POP process a 3 stage process.
1. get a good idea & sketch it out.
2. build it on Working Model, if you can . It will answer most questions for you & is easy to use with a little patience. It will save you huge amounts of frustration in time wasted & thoughts that can be tested for veracity immediately.
3. Build the ultimate simulation, a real tangible wheel to confirm your previous findings &/or intuitions.
As for myself, I am well into a build at the moment (as I've mentioned b4), though it has taken far longer than I had anticipated (months & months). It's a pain being a perfectionist ;)
I consider the POP process a 3 stage process.
1. get a good idea & sketch it out.
2. build it on Working Model, if you can . It will answer most questions for you & is easy to use with a little patience. It will save you huge amounts of frustration in time wasted & thoughts that can be tested for veracity immediately.
3. Build the ultimate simulation, a real tangible wheel to confirm your previous findings &/or intuitions.
As for myself, I am well into a build at the moment (as I've mentioned b4), though it has taken far longer than I had anticipated (months & months). It's a pain being a perfectionist ;)
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ken_behrendt
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- Contact:
re: Bessler's use of Gravity
Well, this "horse" has been in the race for a long time and has grown somewhat weary from the whole process. I sometimes feel like a hungry man who can smell the aroma of fine food wafting through the air and filling my nostrils. I follow the aroma with mouth watering and come upon a restaurant located on a side street in a strange part of town.
However, for some odd reason, all the windows of the restaurant are boarded up and I can not see clearly into the building although I do see some light shining out of tiny chinks in the boards. I can also hear the sounds of people inside the restaurant conversing, of glasses clinking, and of chairs being pushed about. I can also faintly make out soft ambient music playing in the background.
Over the door of the restaurant there is a large sign that reads "Free food today for all...come in and eat all you want"! However, when I try to push open the front door to the restaurant, nothing happens. It is either jammed shut or locked! I yell for someone to let me in...nothing. I then pound with my fists on the door and...still nothing.
My stomach is starting to grumble and my rate of salivation increases. In desperation, I find a piece of wire on the ground and begin trying to pick the lock to the door. But, for some reason, everytime I think the lock is about to open and the door swing open, nothing happens. I try to imagine exactly how the lock is made and exactly which way I must manipulate what little I can see of its mechanism through the keyhole to open it. But, nothing seems to work.
After many hours of this, I tire and must consider what to do next. Should I keep picking away at the lock and I grow weaker from hunger. Or, should I admit defeat, wander off, and then find another restaurant which will more readily admit me? Of course, if I choose the latter action, then I will have to pay for my meal. My stomach will then be filled, but I will have to live with the knowledge that I missed out on a finer and, more importantly, free meal on the other side of town...
ken
However, for some odd reason, all the windows of the restaurant are boarded up and I can not see clearly into the building although I do see some light shining out of tiny chinks in the boards. I can also hear the sounds of people inside the restaurant conversing, of glasses clinking, and of chairs being pushed about. I can also faintly make out soft ambient music playing in the background.
Over the door of the restaurant there is a large sign that reads "Free food today for all...come in and eat all you want"! However, when I try to push open the front door to the restaurant, nothing happens. It is either jammed shut or locked! I yell for someone to let me in...nothing. I then pound with my fists on the door and...still nothing.
My stomach is starting to grumble and my rate of salivation increases. In desperation, I find a piece of wire on the ground and begin trying to pick the lock to the door. But, for some reason, everytime I think the lock is about to open and the door swing open, nothing happens. I try to imagine exactly how the lock is made and exactly which way I must manipulate what little I can see of its mechanism through the keyhole to open it. But, nothing seems to work.
After many hours of this, I tire and must consider what to do next. Should I keep picking away at the lock and I grow weaker from hunger. Or, should I admit defeat, wander off, and then find another restaurant which will more readily admit me? Of course, if I choose the latter action, then I will have to pay for my meal. My stomach will then be filled, but I will have to live with the knowledge that I missed out on a finer and, more importantly, free meal on the other side of town...
ken
On 7/6/06, I found, in any overbalanced gravity wheel with rotation rate, ω, axle to CG distance d, and CG dip angle φ, the average vertical velocity of its drive weights is downward and given by:
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
re: Bessler's use of Gravity
Only Ralph would know this since you and he are working together.Please let me know why I would lie? James L. Kelly
However this thread is now six pages long and you have told us nothing.
Why bother posting if you keep everything to yourself.
At least Mr T gave us something to argue about even though his ideas seem to be "off the wall".
Throw us a couple of scraps to chew on at least, but don't continue dangling a carrot in front of our noses.
Graham
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LustInBlack
- Devotee
- Posts: 1964
- Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 10:30 am
re: Bessler's use of Gravity
Ralph, that comment about the horse is about a weight pulling the wheel when falling instead of falling onto a stop !?
At least that how I interpret it, I don't want to have a false interpretation of that statement, so can you just state if what I say is true or false (About your own interpretation) ?!
This thread is by far the most interesting one I've read in a while .
The solution is apparently in many hands...
Ralph, I would like some input by private mail about current evolution, is that possible !?
BTW, without any offense, I think if someone here has the solution, this solution must be protected (Backed up is a better way to express myself).
I mean, this information must be distributed to some people before something bad happen, memory loss, death or whatever.
Why not uploading this idea on a server in an encrypted file !?
This file could be unencrypted by brute-force but that would take very long. So this idea would be secure for some time in the eventuality something happen. All is not lost, an open-project could emerge and many computers around the net would decrypt the file.. . It would take a relatively short amount of time to do and the information is protected..
A kind of time protected scheme ..
Think about that solution.....
At least that how I interpret it, I don't want to have a false interpretation of that statement, so can you just state if what I say is true or false (About your own interpretation) ?!
This thread is by far the most interesting one I've read in a while .
The solution is apparently in many hands...
Ralph, I would like some input by private mail about current evolution, is that possible !?
BTW, without any offense, I think if someone here has the solution, this solution must be protected (Backed up is a better way to express myself).
I mean, this information must be distributed to some people before something bad happen, memory loss, death or whatever.
Why not uploading this idea on a server in an encrypted file !?
This file could be unencrypted by brute-force but that would take very long. So this idea would be secure for some time in the eventuality something happen. All is not lost, an open-project could emerge and many computers around the net would decrypt the file.. . It would take a relatively short amount of time to do and the information is protected..
A kind of time protected scheme ..
Think about that solution.....
re: Bessler's use of Gravity
Lust that is a good idea. I know not much of how to program. That could also work as per my idea. I would have to give it some thought. Do you have any easy templates?
Edit.
Actually a partial solution might be to start a false email account through yahoo and mail a letter there with the details, the letter would be time dated. Then all one would have to do is supply the password to show proof that the concept was known.
Or one could take the ultimate gamble ala Ken Behrendt and blow out all the details on here. Open the door for everyone. Difuse the possible time bomb by playing it cool or set it off...
Where are you Hamlet?
Edit.
Actually a partial solution might be to start a false email account through yahoo and mail a letter there with the details, the letter would be time dated. Then all one would have to do is supply the password to show proof that the concept was known.
Or one could take the ultimate gamble ala Ken Behrendt and blow out all the details on here. Open the door for everyone. Difuse the possible time bomb by playing it cool or set it off...
Where are you Hamlet?