It was running...

[LustInBlack]

I believe the problem lie in that statement : It is self-starting.

It's impossible, because it would run perpetually. . So I believe you give it a little push to start.

Then the wheel turns.. about 550 times or something and stop .

Are you using pendulums ?! ..

What you could do, is stop it at 4 minutes at a preset position which is known to self-start, and release it with the same push you gave at first (using the stored energy of it running for 4 minutes).. Or try to dissipate the build-up effect..

? ..

Or your experiment is taking place in an environment that isn't "ground level" or something is making it turn .. (I remember my friend showing off his "working device" when tested elsewhere than his table, it wouldn't move... ;] It was funny as hell!!!)

But without the mech .. it's impossible to say.

[rlortie]

I agree with LIB, if it is a self starter then to stop it you would need to tie it down. If it stops of its own accord, then you must give it an assist to restart.

A very heavy flywheel with precision balancing will also run for a long time. like a bicycle once it slows it looses dynamic balance wobbles and falls over. This wheels axis may be of a design for low friction and be so thin that running balance is required to keep it vertical.

I imagine a heavy wheel with the same characteristics as a Darrell design, if magnets are not involved.

Ralph

[PIMAN]

I am skeptical of this claim. Let's see... No photo, no drawing, no video, no mention of the principle behind the motive force, no independent witness, joined the forum today.

What exactly are we supposed to comment on?

I will take a shot at it, I guess.

Since there are no details provided on the mechanism in question, I have filled in those blanks using a random word generator. Here is the solution:

The reason your shoe horn stops after 5.5 minutes is because you have miscalculated the number of buttermilk pancakes it takes to screw the bird house. You see, the correct number is ball gag, because the fish don't eat ice cream with a smirk, but instead, a brass monkey.


There you have it! Simply replace the bolded details with the real 'secret' details, and you shall have the answer.

Glad to be of service.

PIMAN

[LustInBlack]

Piman : ;] ..

Well, in my case, I'll give him a chance to come up with details, maybe he wasn't too familiar with computer in the first place!

[Driggsen]

Thank’s for all the answers. Yes, I am completely new to this forum. Of course I knew about Bessler, and I remember visitting this site a couple of years ago, but I never went to the forum. I found it now, because I was looking for answers…and I got some. The magnetic field part is very interesting. I don’t use any magnets, but the whole device is made in metal. There are two springs and two joints and it might be possible, that some unwanted magnetic effect is interfering – maybe in combination with friction and vibration that builds up and ends with bouncing.
Maybe I sholdnÂ’t have started a topic here, because IÂ’m afraid that some of you will get pretty anoyed. But you must understand, that I will not give away the detailsÂ…yet. Would you?
There is a wheel in the construction, but it is not a Bessler kind of wheel. There is nothing inside the wheel to make it move. It is selfstarting from 4 positions. I donÂ’t push it to start it, I just turn it gently in one of the 4 positions. When it stops, it stops between the positions. The principle is inballance. A heavy weight on one side and a lighter weight on the other. The heavy weight will lift up the lighter weight. But the lighter weight is forced to do something else, rather than beeing liftet. It involves a hydraulic part. And now I will say no more.

[Jetrix]

As you will not give more details, all we can do is make general suggestions like: insulate the hydraulic part so that it does not lose energy by radiating it as heat... also resonance between the spring could be something to look at...

[LustInBlack]

Drigg : I would give the information of my wheel on this forum, yes.
So Would I !? .. Yes.

[Fletcher]

Have fun with it Thomas. When you are ready to find more answers we will still be here.

If it can start from 4 positions & each position gives a similar run time b4 it stops & it stops mid position, I would suggest you have found the keel point. The point where there is no more excess torque to turn the flywheel from position to position. Like a yacht has a keel.

The hydraulic part is interesting & it sounds like you have a self pumping system which eventually runs out of stored energy thru normal (but slow) losses. To run that long suggests the imbalance created is very small & so probably it would have very little power at this early stage of development.

No doubt you are thinking of ways to increase the torque output. I guess you have done a torque measurement at the various positions & seen if the rpm slows over the 5 minutes run duration, as well as the torque decreasing. A quick way to measure torque is use an electronic scale placed under one side of the perimeter. Place a vertical rod onto the scale to get a reading then deduct the weight of the rod. This is a relative gauge of torque & can be used for the mech in any position as long as it is measured from the same 9 or 3 o'cl position. If the torque decreases (if stopped after a few minutes & tested) then the mech is working like a spring & winding down. This would also probably be evident by a slowing of the rpm as well.

If you already have stopped the wheel mid run & have tested the torque & both the rpm & the torque output are the same & it runs for another 5 minutes once gently rotated to the next available start position, then I would suggest your hand is providing the stored energy to the system by priming it to full potential energy again, even if unwittingly.

[rlortie]

Driggsen

Maybe I sholdnÂ’t have started a topic here, because IÂ’m afraid that some of you will get pretty anoyed. But you must understand, that I will not give away the detailsÂ…yet. Would you?

Absolutely not annoyed! (that's two "n's" by the way) :-)

IMO I am not annoyed and I do understand. I find this kind of input right up my alley! It challenges the mind to think, now what has he got? In doing so you do not realize how many doors, trains of thought you are building, or tangents that may pop into mind.

Hydraulics? big weight--- Little weight = master cylinder--- wheel cylinder. one way increases pressure the other way increases volume. One way creates low velocity the other way High velocity.

No matter how you read it you have a gradient potential. gradient potential can perform "work" unfortunately I find hydraulics is the number one killer of potential, through heat loss, IMO it is worse than amperage through to small of wire.

If I should happen to be on the right track first i would ask for size of passage between the two or what ever they are fluidly cnnected to.

Ralph

[murilo]

All the members in this forum are, of sure, humans.
Each human beam with its charge of problems and neurosys.
Basicaly, all of us are adversaries and enemies, or competitors, in a very natural and comprehensive way.
As we know, some may have a super-charge of neura...
This means, we have made real enemies in our forum past!
Occasionally, some comes to revenge and bother.
Don't you feel like you all are now *discussing seriously* a cartoon???
This means that you fall in this poor revenge.
Take care... regs. M.

[Fletcher]

murilo .. point taken. I think most of us try to give the benefit of the doubt until someone traps themselves or contradictions are seen by the members that expose the sincerity or credibility of the claim & claimant.

Sometimes omissions of observations are just as telling.

[bluesgtr44]

It is selfstarting from 4 positions. I don’t push it to start it, I just turn it gently in one of the 4 positions. When it stops, it stops between the positions.

Okay...this tells me that you are working in quadrants. You have to align the device to a starting position to induce motion and those positions are probably 90 degrees apart. Now, after that...it can sustain motion through an "impulse" that is probably provided at approximately the "keel" point, and these impulses are provided at appr. 90 degree intervals, probably assisted by the springs. The hydraulic mechanism seems to be the "reset"....am I even close?


Steve

[jasinlishi]

Is it possible that your wheel is increasing in speed to an unstable level?
If it is.. how about adding a friction brake to keep the RPM consistant...

J-

[ME]

Perhaps the wheel stops because the hydraulic fluids are drained by the "centrifugal" forces, and/or is not completely returning to the desi(r/gn)ed position. Hmm, in that case it would self-start again when the fluid dripped back again.
I give up... pictures please?