Hello Scott and others,
I've looked at the drawings of Bessler's wheels countless times trying to understand them and only just realized that all the parts are numbered - I mean I've always seen that they are numbered - but it just occurred to me that there may be a list of descriptions for these parts - and if they have been named, the names may give some clues as to their operation. Does such a list exist for these drawings?
Bessler Wheel drawings
Moderator: scott
Bessler Wheel drawings
peace
re: Bessler Wheel drawings
Look at what should be 24 is in fact 42 in one drawing & not the other. Bessler hand corrected every mistake so this seems a deliberate ploy on his behalf. No its not the answer to the universe & everything, after his time ;)
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ken_behrendt
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re: Bessler Wheel drawings
Rob...
Yes, there is a "key" that Bessler had that told what the names of the parts were that the numbers were attached to. Of course, you will find that key in John Collin's reprints of Bessler's works. But, I think it was also posted on one of the threads of this board a while back. You should try using the Search feature of the board. Try putting the words "number key" into the Search Engine text field and see what is returned.
If there are any other members who remember what thread that number key appeared in, then maybe you can steer Rob in the right direction on this one. However, I do not think anything useful came out of the key for the numbers. But, IIRC, there were certain words in it that could not be translated! So, maybe you will find something interesting there after all.
ken
Yes, there is a "key" that Bessler had that told what the names of the parts were that the numbers were attached to. Of course, you will find that key in John Collin's reprints of Bessler's works. But, I think it was also posted on one of the threads of this board a while back. You should try using the Search feature of the board. Try putting the words "number key" into the Search Engine text field and see what is returned.
If there are any other members who remember what thread that number key appeared in, then maybe you can steer Rob in the right direction on this one. However, I do not think anything useful came out of the key for the numbers. But, IIRC, there were certain words in it that could not be translated! So, maybe you will find something interesting there after all.
ken
On 7/6/06, I found, in any overbalanced gravity wheel with rotation rate, ω, axle to CG distance d, and CG dip angle φ, the average vertical velocity of its drive weights is downward and given by:
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
re: Bessler Wheel drawings
Ken and all,
I was going to post a lead for a description of numbers that was on the following link. But now all I get is a contents page for domain names.
http://www.mikeyned.com/bessler/
Can anybody out there help my find mikeyned, he seems to have disappeared!
Ralph
I was going to post a lead for a description of numbers that was on the following link. But now all I get is a contents page for domain names.
http://www.mikeyned.com/bessler/
Can anybody out there help my find mikeyned, he seems to have disappeared!
Ralph
re: Bessler Wheel drawings
Hi Ralph,
Unfortunately Mikey Ned seems to have disappeared from the Net (at least for the moment). I believe that below is the page that you had in mind. There were three pictures in that page that didn't survive the pasting procedure into this boards Message Body frame. Fortunately, all of the pictures can also be found on this board so I took the liberty to insert the links to them instead. Below the line is an otherwise exact copy of the page with spelling errors and all.
Enjoy
MC
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Bi-Directional Wheel:
Shown below is the first of three of Bessler's important drawings of his wheels found in the book "The Triumphant Perpetual Motion Machine of Orffyreus". (Shortened English version of title). Every line of this book was written in both German and Latin.
There is a twin sister drawing in Bessler's 1715 book "A Very Thorough Report". These drawings are identical except for a few important details that are mostly discussed on another web page.
If you only casually look at Bessler's drawings you will not see very much. But when you begin to study the details and find a clue or code you discover a trail of clues that is either meant to take the seeker to paradise or dirve him insane. One must avoid reading too much into the documents, without overlooking the smallest possibilities.
Observations and Oddities
As you look over the drawing most of the numbers are easy to find. The number 5 is another matter, in the lower left area on both this and the twin drawing. Why is number 5 so difficult to find, what's the meaning?
The two weighted T-bars in the left half of the drawing are both positioned as if the hook is being pulled down. The assembly to the right however indicates the hooked arm is being pushed upward. Why?
The pendulum weights, I believe, are actually a depiction of the driving force mechanism of the wheel. Part of the far left pendulum T-bar is identically cut off on both twin drawings. This fact indicates that it was intentionally cut off at the edge of the drawing and again what does it mean?
Everyone of Besslers drawings has something going in/out of a window which is an unusual characteristic in and of itself. This drawing and the twin drawing have an opening or hole at the bottom of the support column as well. It looks as if the floor pulley could have been positioned a few inches either way to avoid the additional work of carving a rectangular hole. Is it a literal necessity for a squre cornered hole here or is it figurative?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't believe that anyone can give a perfect translation of the text keys because the original intent of the author was to confuse and entice his audience. It is also subject to the influence and opinions of the translator. Some of the text, and the drawings could be taken literal and some as figurative.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[click to enlarge]
TEXT KEY
1. Is the size or circumference of the main machine.
2. The thickness or profile through main machine.
3. The main, or special shaft through the middle of machine.
4. Wooden boards between which the machine is suspended and works.
5. Frame position for the "hammer mill" and/or stamping.
6. Four heavy stamps which are alternately lifted in pairs.
7. Eight curved arms are firmly mounted in secial places on the main shaft to elevate the stamps.
8. Poles that are perpendicular to each other, and span the circumference. They move uniformly and reset.
9. Small pole that the perpendicula are moved by.
10. Iron hooks firmly affixed at the axle that move the shaft.
11. Weights on the end(s) of the perpendicul.
12. Wooden border of a door from which one perpendicul is suspended.
13. A small pole, slanting to the perpendicul, that must hold it up.
14. Iron screw in the shaft, on which the rope is coupled.
15 Here the rope winds around the main shaft.
16. Shows the total length(s) of the rope.
17. Small wheels on the floor, through which the rope runs.
18. The rope goes through a hole in the board.
19. The rope goes through the window.
20. Small wheel by the window over which the rope runs.
21. Piece of wood on which the small wheel moves.
22. Box full of rocks by itself as the machine from the deep raised.
23. An arm which sends & holds machine.
24. Lock and chain to hold the machine firmly.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The One-Directional Wheel:
Bessler gave these two drawings the unusual titles "First Figure" and "Second Figure" because they are the last two drawings in Bessler's 1719 book "The Triumphant Perpetual Wheel".
The 1st Fig. drawing is lettered 'a' through 'i', 'k' through 't' and includes the number 10. The only letter missing in the natural series is 'j'. The reason appears to be that the letters 'i' and 'j' were the same in the old German language. The same is true of the letters 'u' and 'v'. The 2nd Fig. drawing is labeled 1 to 10 with the 10's indicating the same object in both drawings. These facts tell me that Bessler was expecting the reader to view them as a unit like the two sides of a coin.
I have spent, maybe too much, time looking at the lettering/numbering system of the drawings
If you start counting through the letters of the 1st Fig., 'i' being the number 1, skip 'j', 'k' is 2, and so on. You will find that the sixth letter is 'o', the bucket full of water and similarly the number 6 in the 2nd Fig. is the box full of rocks. Both are weights hanging from the end of a rope.
The seventh letter 'p' is the last item in the left panel of 1st Fig and the number 7 is the last item in the left panel of 2nd Fig. There are four 8's in the right panel of the "second" drawing and the first four letters of the right panel on the "first" drawing could represent the same mechanism in a different light. These examples show that these two drawings could almost be interlaced like the pieces of a jig saw puzzle. I also think it is possible that there may be a hidden message or clues in the wording.
If you look at 2nd Fig. and read the text key of 1st Fig. (starting with the letter i) you will see that many of these descriptions fit in a metaphoric sense.
[click to enlarge]
The First Figure:
The Perpetual Wheel that is similar in strange shape to the secret construction that existed at Weissenstein.
A. Shows the size of the machine, circumference and profile.
B. Four forks screwed into the main shaft for pulling the snail (water pump)
C. Hooked wooden arms in the main shaft, to elevate the stamps.
D. The stamps themselves which are lifted through the lath.
E. The rope that moves the water-pump.
F. A square wheel on the pump, over which the rope runs.
G. The water-pump itself is run by the perpetual mobile.
H. The water box which the spiral pump empties.
I. Here is one of the openings of the pump which scoops the water.
NO 'J'
K. Here different is the very same hole where she empties.
L. The water pours water forcefullyr out of the pump and into the wooden pole
M. Water goes repeatedly out of and into the box.
N. Shows how something is transported on the main shaft itself.
O. Shows a water basket which is elevated through the machine.
P. The perpendicul, when the machine is supposed to move slowly.
Q. The out running water runs in funnel through the floor hollow-throat.
R. Out of the funnel the water then decends in a channel.
S. The spout goes out of the windows.
T. The water which was brought by the basket then flows away.
10. Shows a transparent layout of the machine.
[click to enlarge]
The Second Figure, of the perpetual mobile at Weissenstein.
1. The whole size of the wheel or perpetual mobile.
2. The rope winds around the main shaft.
3. The rope runs under a small wheel.
4. The rope goes through the window.
5. The rope is suspended by a small wheel.
6. The box with stones is pulled up.
7. The lock, when the machine is not working.
8. The perpendicul, at it's end three weights.
9. Iron hooks affixed to small poles that move the perpendicul strongly.
10. Above and underneath transparent, so the machine can stand free and be moved when needed.
Copyright ©: This document may be freely reproduced for noncommercial purposes but only if all
parts and text are complete and unaltered, including this copyright information. All other rights reserved.
No part text or image of this publication may otherwise be reproduced, or transmitted, in any form or
by any means, electronic, mechanical,photocopying, recording or otherwise, without the prior permission of the
copyright owner.![Image]()
Unfortunately Mikey Ned seems to have disappeared from the Net (at least for the moment). I believe that below is the page that you had in mind. There were three pictures in that page that didn't survive the pasting procedure into this boards Message Body frame. Fortunately, all of the pictures can also be found on this board so I took the liberty to insert the links to them instead. Below the line is an otherwise exact copy of the page with spelling errors and all.
Enjoy
MC
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Bi-Directional Wheel:
Shown below is the first of three of Bessler's important drawings of his wheels found in the book "The Triumphant Perpetual Motion Machine of Orffyreus". (Shortened English version of title). Every line of this book was written in both German and Latin.
There is a twin sister drawing in Bessler's 1715 book "A Very Thorough Report". These drawings are identical except for a few important details that are mostly discussed on another web page.
If you only casually look at Bessler's drawings you will not see very much. But when you begin to study the details and find a clue or code you discover a trail of clues that is either meant to take the seeker to paradise or dirve him insane. One must avoid reading too much into the documents, without overlooking the smallest possibilities.
Observations and Oddities
As you look over the drawing most of the numbers are easy to find. The number 5 is another matter, in the lower left area on both this and the twin drawing. Why is number 5 so difficult to find, what's the meaning?
The two weighted T-bars in the left half of the drawing are both positioned as if the hook is being pulled down. The assembly to the right however indicates the hooked arm is being pushed upward. Why?
The pendulum weights, I believe, are actually a depiction of the driving force mechanism of the wheel. Part of the far left pendulum T-bar is identically cut off on both twin drawings. This fact indicates that it was intentionally cut off at the edge of the drawing and again what does it mean?
Everyone of Besslers drawings has something going in/out of a window which is an unusual characteristic in and of itself. This drawing and the twin drawing have an opening or hole at the bottom of the support column as well. It looks as if the floor pulley could have been positioned a few inches either way to avoid the additional work of carving a rectangular hole. Is it a literal necessity for a squre cornered hole here or is it figurative?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't believe that anyone can give a perfect translation of the text keys because the original intent of the author was to confuse and entice his audience. It is also subject to the influence and opinions of the translator. Some of the text, and the drawings could be taken literal and some as figurative.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[click to enlarge]
TEXT KEY
1. Is the size or circumference of the main machine.
2. The thickness or profile through main machine.
3. The main, or special shaft through the middle of machine.
4. Wooden boards between which the machine is suspended and works.
5. Frame position for the "hammer mill" and/or stamping.
6. Four heavy stamps which are alternately lifted in pairs.
7. Eight curved arms are firmly mounted in secial places on the main shaft to elevate the stamps.
8. Poles that are perpendicular to each other, and span the circumference. They move uniformly and reset.
9. Small pole that the perpendicula are moved by.
10. Iron hooks firmly affixed at the axle that move the shaft.
11. Weights on the end(s) of the perpendicul.
12. Wooden border of a door from which one perpendicul is suspended.
13. A small pole, slanting to the perpendicul, that must hold it up.
14. Iron screw in the shaft, on which the rope is coupled.
15 Here the rope winds around the main shaft.
16. Shows the total length(s) of the rope.
17. Small wheels on the floor, through which the rope runs.
18. The rope goes through a hole in the board.
19. The rope goes through the window.
20. Small wheel by the window over which the rope runs.
21. Piece of wood on which the small wheel moves.
22. Box full of rocks by itself as the machine from the deep raised.
23. An arm which sends & holds machine.
24. Lock and chain to hold the machine firmly.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The One-Directional Wheel:
Bessler gave these two drawings the unusual titles "First Figure" and "Second Figure" because they are the last two drawings in Bessler's 1719 book "The Triumphant Perpetual Wheel".
The 1st Fig. drawing is lettered 'a' through 'i', 'k' through 't' and includes the number 10. The only letter missing in the natural series is 'j'. The reason appears to be that the letters 'i' and 'j' were the same in the old German language. The same is true of the letters 'u' and 'v'. The 2nd Fig. drawing is labeled 1 to 10 with the 10's indicating the same object in both drawings. These facts tell me that Bessler was expecting the reader to view them as a unit like the two sides of a coin.
I have spent, maybe too much, time looking at the lettering/numbering system of the drawings
If you start counting through the letters of the 1st Fig., 'i' being the number 1, skip 'j', 'k' is 2, and so on. You will find that the sixth letter is 'o', the bucket full of water and similarly the number 6 in the 2nd Fig. is the box full of rocks. Both are weights hanging from the end of a rope.
The seventh letter 'p' is the last item in the left panel of 1st Fig and the number 7 is the last item in the left panel of 2nd Fig. There are four 8's in the right panel of the "second" drawing and the first four letters of the right panel on the "first" drawing could represent the same mechanism in a different light. These examples show that these two drawings could almost be interlaced like the pieces of a jig saw puzzle. I also think it is possible that there may be a hidden message or clues in the wording.
If you look at 2nd Fig. and read the text key of 1st Fig. (starting with the letter i) you will see that many of these descriptions fit in a metaphoric sense.
[click to enlarge]
The First Figure:
The Perpetual Wheel that is similar in strange shape to the secret construction that existed at Weissenstein.
A. Shows the size of the machine, circumference and profile.
B. Four forks screwed into the main shaft for pulling the snail (water pump)
C. Hooked wooden arms in the main shaft, to elevate the stamps.
D. The stamps themselves which are lifted through the lath.
E. The rope that moves the water-pump.
F. A square wheel on the pump, over which the rope runs.
G. The water-pump itself is run by the perpetual mobile.
H. The water box which the spiral pump empties.
I. Here is one of the openings of the pump which scoops the water.
NO 'J'
K. Here different is the very same hole where she empties.
L. The water pours water forcefullyr out of the pump and into the wooden pole
M. Water goes repeatedly out of and into the box.
N. Shows how something is transported on the main shaft itself.
O. Shows a water basket which is elevated through the machine.
P. The perpendicul, when the machine is supposed to move slowly.
Q. The out running water runs in funnel through the floor hollow-throat.
R. Out of the funnel the water then decends in a channel.
S. The spout goes out of the windows.
T. The water which was brought by the basket then flows away.
10. Shows a transparent layout of the machine.
[click to enlarge]
The Second Figure, of the perpetual mobile at Weissenstein.
1. The whole size of the wheel or perpetual mobile.
2. The rope winds around the main shaft.
3. The rope runs under a small wheel.
4. The rope goes through the window.
5. The rope is suspended by a small wheel.
6. The box with stones is pulled up.
7. The lock, when the machine is not working.
8. The perpendicul, at it's end three weights.
9. Iron hooks affixed to small poles that move the perpendicul strongly.
10. Above and underneath transparent, so the machine can stand free and be moved when needed.
Copyright ©: This document may be freely reproduced for noncommercial purposes but only if all
parts and text are complete and unaltered, including this copyright information. All other rights reserved.
No part text or image of this publication may otherwise be reproduced, or transmitted, in any form or
by any means, electronic, mechanical,photocopying, recording or otherwise, without the prior permission of the
copyright owner.
Last edited by MC on Sat Aug 19, 2006 11:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
re: Bessler Wheel drawings
MC,
I thank you for rounding this information up for all! I am sure the Newbies will enjoy it.
As for the rectangular hole in the bottom of the column for the rope. There has been a lot of conversation spent pondering on the purpose.
My empirical insight tells me that the pulley is mounted to the plinth which is supporting the column that is supporting the weight of the wheel and therefore holding the pulley in place.
If I move the wheel, as we know happened, I do not have to drill a hole in the floor to attach the pulley block. Pulley attachment and plinth is moved with the rest of the machine by simply chopping a hole in the column. This is the most natural and the least loss of friction by the "Lay of the Rope" a nautical term for how a rope will lay around a pulley or attaching point. It also is a matter of 'Lead" on the axle meaning that the rope can wind or unwind in un-overlapped layers thus we can call the plinth mounted pulley also a "fairlead" a term common to those familiar with crane operation or high lead logging practice.
Note that the rectangle hole is not centered in the column but rather to one side which is directly in vertical line with axle radius. I agree that pulling off the axle is in line for 360 degrees, but to have it vertical with the columns is a sign of craftmanship.
Ralph
I thank you for rounding this information up for all! I am sure the Newbies will enjoy it.
As for the rectangular hole in the bottom of the column for the rope. There has been a lot of conversation spent pondering on the purpose.
My empirical insight tells me that the pulley is mounted to the plinth which is supporting the column that is supporting the weight of the wheel and therefore holding the pulley in place.
If I move the wheel, as we know happened, I do not have to drill a hole in the floor to attach the pulley block. Pulley attachment and plinth is moved with the rest of the machine by simply chopping a hole in the column. This is the most natural and the least loss of friction by the "Lay of the Rope" a nautical term for how a rope will lay around a pulley or attaching point. It also is a matter of 'Lead" on the axle meaning that the rope can wind or unwind in un-overlapped layers thus we can call the plinth mounted pulley also a "fairlead" a term common to those familiar with crane operation or high lead logging practice.
Note that the rectangle hole is not centered in the column but rather to one side which is directly in vertical line with axle radius. I agree that pulling off the axle is in line for 360 degrees, but to have it vertical with the columns is a sign of craftmanship.
Ralph
re: Bessler Wheel drawings
What is the purpose of the pendiulum on the out side of the wheel? Is it to control the speed of the wheel or to give it a little extra power at certain point during the turning of the wheel?
re: Bessler Wheel drawings
Firefox,
We all wish we new the answer to that one.
Pete.
We all wish we new the answer to that one.
Pete.
re: Bessler Wheel drawings
thanks for the info MC.
Regarding the pendulums on the sides of the wheel: two things intrigue me:
1. why is the small link at the axel curved? A straight link between the pivots of this connection would operate the same, no? Does this curvature suggest that this link operates in a reciprocating fashion or rotating? This link appears on all the drawings though not attached to the pendulum in the Kassel drawing-it looks like a crank. Also in the Merseberg drawings the front and side views show this link and the pendulums reversed and 90 degrees out of phase (I could understand them being drawn 180 degrees different, but 90 is curious)
2. the proportions of this link with its connecting rods to the pendulum also suggests that the pendulum may only swing in a sector of 1/2 its natural arc (i.e: swinging down from the left, stopping at the vertical position, and then travelling back up to the left). Could it be that the two pendulums together complete one full swing?
Regarding the pendulums on the sides of the wheel: two things intrigue me:
1. why is the small link at the axel curved? A straight link between the pivots of this connection would operate the same, no? Does this curvature suggest that this link operates in a reciprocating fashion or rotating? This link appears on all the drawings though not attached to the pendulum in the Kassel drawing-it looks like a crank. Also in the Merseberg drawings the front and side views show this link and the pendulums reversed and 90 degrees out of phase (I could understand them being drawn 180 degrees different, but 90 is curious)
2. the proportions of this link with its connecting rods to the pendulum also suggests that the pendulum may only swing in a sector of 1/2 its natural arc (i.e: swinging down from the left, stopping at the vertical position, and then travelling back up to the left). Could it be that the two pendulums together complete one full swing?
peace
re: Bessler Wheel drawings
M.T. 51, 52, 57, etc. Without the curve would you be able to tell what it was?1. why is the small link at the axel curved? A straight link between the pivots of this connection would operate the same, no? Does this curvature suggest that this link operates in a reciprocating fashion or rotating? This link appears on all the drawings though not attached to the pendulum in the Kassel drawing-it looks like a crank. Also in the Merseberg drawings the front and side views show this link and the pendulums reversed and 90 degrees out of phase (I could understand them being drawn 180 degrees different, but 90 is curious)
re: Bessler Wheel drawings
Note that the afore mentioned crank (item 10) is shown with connected rod to it's back side rather than the face.
This would indicate that it reciprocates and is prevented by the axle of being able to make a full turn?
Ralph
This would indicate that it reciprocates and is prevented by the axle of being able to make a full turn?
Ralph
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Jon J Hutton
- Aficionado
- Posts: 922
- Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2005 4:41 pm
- Location: Somewhere
re: Bessler Wheel drawings
Ralph, and others,
One thing that was interesting to me was if you look at the 12 pointed star drawing you have a very large axle, but, their is a space between the axle and the lines of the star. It looks like it could just be mistaken as if he drew a second circle around the axle but if you enlarge the picture the supposed circle is only a result of the lines of the 12 pointed circle. No big news here, however look at the space between the lines and the axle....it is the exact width as the space in the drawing he posts of the wheel that has 3 dark triangle with the 3 20 degree triangles.
One thing that was interesting to me was if you look at the 12 pointed star drawing you have a very large axle, but, their is a space between the axle and the lines of the star. It looks like it could just be mistaken as if he drew a second circle around the axle but if you enlarge the picture the supposed circle is only a result of the lines of the 12 pointed circle. No big news here, however look at the space between the lines and the axle....it is the exact width as the space in the drawing he posts of the wheel that has 3 dark triangle with the 3 20 degree triangles.
re: Bessler Wheel drawings
Hello Jon,
the 12 pointed star is MT137 but what is the number of the other wheel? I can't find what you you refer to. For some reason MT137 also caught my eye - being the only drawing purely geometrical and not "operative"
the 12 pointed star is MT137 but what is the number of the other wheel? I can't find what you you refer to. For some reason MT137 also caught my eye - being the only drawing purely geometrical and not "operative"
peace
-
Jon J Hutton
- Aficionado
- Posts: 922
- Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2005 4:41 pm
- Location: Somewhere
re: Bessler Wheel drawings
Here is what I was talking about...look at the spaces just out side the wheels hub or supposed bearing....they are the same.
JJH
JJH
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LustInBlack
- Devotee
- Posts: 1964
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re: Bessler Wheel drawings
Jon, Damn thanks for that!!!
For whatever reason I've found something incredible that concerns those 2 drawings, however, the wheel is not there, it's a way to describe the "evidence" of the wheel.
At least, it seems to work with my new idea of twin rotor.
My shifter mech will reside according to the 3 points "stencil".
MT137 describe a up/down movement, which I translate to front/back.
Maybe it has nothing to do with those 2 drawings, but I've got an incredible idea from them ..
I love my idea, because all the mech is on the rim and the inside of the wheel is empty!
More to come..
For whatever reason I've found something incredible that concerns those 2 drawings, however, the wheel is not there, it's a way to describe the "evidence" of the wheel.
At least, it seems to work with my new idea of twin rotor.
My shifter mech will reside according to the 3 points "stencil".
MT137 describe a up/down movement, which I translate to front/back.
Maybe it has nothing to do with those 2 drawings, but I've got an incredible idea from them ..
I love my idea, because all the mech is on the rim and the inside of the wheel is empty!
More to come..