Bessler's use of Gravity

[james kelly]

Rainier; That is absolutely correct. It has been running that way since early in July. Several different people have some knowledge of it. What I have said of Bessler is true. Everything that you need to know about his discovery is already out there for everyone. JLK

[ken_behrendt]

James Kelley...

Well, now you have me really perplexed. You claim to have a wheel (or barrel) that has been running continuously since July and has no weights being lifted on the ascending side of the wheel. That would seem to imply that the weights are lifted on the descending side. Thus, the weights both fall and rise on the wheel's descending side.

If that was possible, then there would, of course, be no problem in keeping the CG of those weights on the wheel's descending side at all times and the wheel would have to turn continuously. However, I think this is something I will have to see in order to believe.

You make several references to Bessler in your posts. Are you claiming that you have found the secret mechanism that Bessler used?


ken

[rlortie]

To James kelly,

Sir, I find your current liberal statements some what premature and hard to substantiate without walking on ground that is agreed to be of confidential standing.

Careful big brother I know anticipation is high and it screams to be let out, but please consider what you are saying. You are stirring the hornets nest again. I know you enjoy doing this, but your current approach may backfire upon you!

When the time is right I shall be there to either refute or bear witness as the case so deems.

Ralph

[Fletcher]

I find your current liberal statements some what premature and hard to substantiate .. snip ..

You are stirring the hornets nest again. I know you enjoy doing this..

When the time is right I shall be there to either refute or bear witness as the case so deems.

Hi Ralph .. this has been the point all along in case you didn't know !

Who better than you to substantiate or refute such claims, such as, its been running since July (that 2 months so far, actually he said his first wheel was running in May - total of 4 months ago) or that weights in fact do ascend (contrary to Mr Kelly's statements) but on the descending side, ala the weights circulate/orbit within the down going hemisphere.

All anyone has asked is to have a person of repute confirm or deny Mr Kelly's claims & I'm glad you are prepared to call him out if they are false. That will put your friendship at risk, if there is any doubt, so may be hard for you to do.

In am surprised that 4 months after the event you still don't feel confident or in a position to back up his claims unequivocally & honestly to the forum members ?

I hope that changes soon when you complete your version of the build ?

In the mean time some very reasonable people, such as Ken, have asked some very simple & reasonable questions which have been conveniently ignored since July by Mr Kelly, such as what RPM does the wheel turn at, unloaded even ?

That can't seem that threatening, even to James Kelly ?

[rlortie]

CW,

In Following this thread, I find your below quote to be one of the better posts in the last ten!

James, it works fine in my imagination, it's the real world where I keep running into trouble, lol. You keep stating there are "no ascending weights", but I can't see how that is possible.

It is possible, but the usage is still in research.

If a weight falls it must be lifted back up (a.k.a. repositioned) in order to perform subsequent work. If the wheel isn't lifting the weights, something else must be. Is this what you're suggesting?

That is what he is suggesting, the answer is relative!

Ken,

Well, now you have me really perplexed. You claim to have a wheel (or barrel) that has been running continuously since July and has no weights being lifted on the ascending side of the wheel. That would seem to imply that the weights are lifted on the descending side. Thus, the weights both fall and rise on the wheel's descending side.

I previously stated that when Bessler said that one side was full and the other empty, he was not talking just CG but weights! As for a running wheel since July, I have no part of and have no claim or connection to such a statement.

Nor do I claim that weights are lifted on the descending side, I simply claim that there are no weights on the ascending side. As Bessler also wrote, it is for the discerning! and the answer is there, You must simply pull back the curtain as he is no longer here to do as he said he would do.

This is a combined effort of more than James and I, I have said all I will say and that is to much!

Ralph

[murilo]

James, how are you doing!
I do believe that you may have THE MODEL, besides to me it's hard to reach to *what else* you want before release it!
My 2¢:
if you just confirm that your project - at any grade - is similar to MT19, I bet you got the same idea I had at some 3 months ago.
Hard is that I have another *big deal* to solve before and my time is too short.
In the above case, as I said here, one may considere that weights don't 'come up' before fall... Seens crazzy, but it's true and beautifull.
Question to others is just this: where to put the resistive masses?
regs. M. SP sept/01

[rlortie]

Fletcher,

Our posts overlapped!

Hi Ralph .. this has been the point all along in case you didn't know !

Yup! Always is this point!

Who better than you to substantiate or refute such claims, such as, its been running since July (that 2 months so far, actually he said his first wheel was running in May - total of 4 months ago) or that weights in fact do ascend (contrary to Mr Kelly's statements) but on the descending side, ala the weights circulate/orbit within the down going hemisphere.

Well I certainly appreciate your recognition of my integrity! As for substantiating anything regarding a running wheel, I cannot. As for the design having a spread of weight all on the descending side I can, not unlike the peacocks tail. I will not debate the concept of weights rising on the descending side as it involves relative thinking. To say that they "orbit within" is a statement I can say best fits!

All anyone has asked is to have a person of repute confirm or deny Mr Kelly's claims & I'm glad you are prepared to call him out if they are false. That will put your friendship at risk, if there is any doubt, so may be hard for you to do.

First the idea of "calling him out" is something I do not believe that either of us are concerned with. I am not afraid to call him out, nor do I feel in doing so would hurt our friendship. We work together but are of considerable distance apart. I am not in a position to substantiate anything he say's. No more than I could substantiate a claim by any member so far away.

In am surprised that 4 months after the event you still don't feel confident or in a position to back up his claims unequivocally & honestly to the forum members ?

Four months ago, I knew nothing of his current design, but must admit, I was giving serious thought to something simular. Those thoughts of course were of his influence and a third involved member that shall remain nameless for now.

I hope that changes soon when you complete your version of the build ?

"My version" should well be emphasized! Although similar in concept is does have my own variations. My thrown together wheel built laying down should be ready for a stand up and mounted in the test stand within a day or two.

In the mean time some very reasonable people, such as Ken, have asked some very simple & reasonable questions which have been conveniently ignored since July by Mr Kelly, such as what RPM does the wheel turn at, unloaded even ? That can't seem that threatening, even to James Kelly ?

These are undeniably pertinent questions, but they are not asked of me as I have made no such claims. These are for James Kelly to respond at his discretion. Regarding such matters! I can only hope that he remembers, he also has agreed to a three way confidential partnership regarding this matter.

With that thought in mind, I believe I have answered your letter to the best of my ability without overstepping my own agreed upon limitations.
EDIT FOR punctuation.
Ralph

[Fletcher]

Thanks Ralph, you have balls ;) Perhaps the three inventors of this wheel should get together & draw up a list of the simple answers to potential questions, they feel they can answer in advance for the forum, to keep things interesting.

[rlortie]

As for Mr. Kelly's and my variation of the concept in question.

It is agreed that one of three members come forth with the unkowingly inspiration, that gave the second a spark of innovation which lead to the the current design.

I consider this as the tool this forum was designed to be used for. The member who gave the insperation, need not have known anything about what he wrought forth, except for one problem. That being, I like to go to bed at night with a clear conscience.

Ralph

[Fletcher]

;-) Does his share come out of your 50% or james's 50% ?

[rlortie]

Fletcher,

In the last few days and on various threads, I have just about covered all I can at this point in time.

I am under pressure to finish my version, then and only then can I substantiate any more input than what follows.

I have no idea as to knowing if my version will even run! I was told that it was not possible to do a WM2D simm of it. Which lead to a full fledge build by Mr Kelly and myself.

I am however keeping statistics on all that I do and taking photo's of each stage. Everything will be weighed before final assembly.

We have accomplished that which Ken has lead some to believe is impossible, and came up with a discerning design that meets Besslers statements.

One side is full the other empty!
one side is light the other full!
It spreads like a peacocks tail!
One pound can lift four (relative speaking)
The weights rise in a flash (relative speaking)
Lazy fat horses wonder aimlessly.
The dog reaches the end of his leash!
The cat catches juicy mice!
For in it their is a wheel, but is it a wheel, it looks like a grindstone!

Parables that I cannot relate, include but not limited to are:
Children play among the pillars
The dog is patted on the paw by the fop's who come to watch!
and others that I do not recall at the moment!

Ralph

[james kelly]

Fletcher; I never did think that you had anyone elses feelings or ideas except your own and perhaps Rainier. You hve proven that you can not be trusted. you do not believe that anyone could possibly concieve of something which you can not. I use previous units to construct new ones just as J.B. did. JLK

[Fletcher]

Thanks Ralph, that was very upfront. I respect that. Good luck with your build & I hope it works for you.

James .. ha ha, I like a game of chicken & you squawked. Nevertheless I do trust Ralph's ability to get something to work if its possible, so here's hoping. Hero or Zero, here you come cobber.

[rlortie]

Fletcher

;-) Does his share come out of your 50% or james's 50% ?

I do appreciate you starting this statement with a smiley! Other wise I would feel more offended.

His share will be 33-1/3% !! If not for him this "not yet substantiated" design would have never materialized.

It is a matter of trust in your fellow member to work together. Joining this forum should be viewed as a verbal hand shake to share what one can share with those responsible.

I say "those responsible" as it is obvious the majority of 320 odd members are not do-ers, they are philosophers who would rather rely on their physics books and debate how and should you patent, without having anything to patent. I believe it is referred to as "Cart before the horse".

I can only hope that when a member is inspired by another, that member has the balls to include anyone who gave input, whether knowingly or by accident! If not then this forum is and never will be anything other than perpetual motion by members talking, not chasing perpetual motion.

Ralph

[cw]

That is what he is suggesting, the answer is relative!

Ralph, thanks for clarifying. I figured that pretty much had to be the implication. If the ascending side is empty, that leaves basically 2 possibilites:

1) a secondary mechanism lifts the weights
or
2) the bottom of your wheel fills up with "spent" weights real quick. :)