Finsrud's Perpetuum Mobile Protocol for Conclusive Verification

[Mac]

amateur, I would hope he has detailed plans, with specs on every part, BUT being a work of art, with a lot of adustments made-I wonder...he probably has general plans, thats all-I'm sure he never expected or WANTED to make another one!

Lol, yeah I wonder how many folks that climbed Mt Everest would do it again just for the skeptics... ;)

Cheers, Mac

[ken_behrendt]

In considering the Finsrud device, it occurred to me that there could be a very simple way of faking such a device.

Below is a possible way that I think could be used. One would place a rotating array of powerful rare earth magnets inside of a central dome located at the exact center of a track which carried a steel ball. The ball would magnetically "couple" with the nearest magnet and, since the array of magnets was constantly kept in motion by a small motor, the ball would feel a slight tug on it at all times that would allow it to roll with constant velocity about the track.

To produce this fake, it is, of course, necessary that the rotating array of magnets not be visible to viewers. They would be housed in a dome which was opaque and would have to be made of a non-magnetic material. Brass is a suitable alloy for this.

To confuse viewers and distract them from wondering what was inside of the dome, the ball would, in its circuit about the track, pass through several mechanisms that involved moving magnets attached to ramp levers in the track. These magnets would have no affect upon the average velocity of the ball. Only the slight energy the ball received from the magnets withing the dome would allow it to overcome air resistance and rolling friction and stay in motion.

To power the motor rotating the hidden magnets, only two small wires need be hidden in the supports for the device. These wires would run down through legs of the device and then through holes in the floor to a power source located on the floor below the device.


ken

[Omnibus]

@ken_behrendt,

That possibility will be excluded if the non-magnetic ball stops sooner than the original, won't it?

[jpr]

This thread made me laugh so hard that I had to register on the forum just to voice my approval of it.

I think one day the entire world will have Finsrud machines generating energy for us - we will have huge wheels everywhere with big magnets and balls rolling round.

:D I can't wait!

[Bessler007]

I think one day the entire world will have Finsrud machines generating energy for us - we will have huge wheels everywhere with big magnets and balls rolling round.

If the finsrud perpetuum mobile is not a fraud it will change scientific thought. There's no real power in the device. If you think that's funny imho you are easily amused. I don't mean that in a bad way.

☯

[Omnibus]

@bessler007, you wrote:

"If the finsrud perpetuum mobile is not a fraud it will change scientific thought. There's no real power in the device. If you think that's funny imho you are easily amused. I don't mean that in a bad way."

Can't agree more.

[ken_behrendt]

Omnibus asked me (in reference to the sketch I posted about faking a Finsrud device):

That possibility will be excluded if the non-magnetic ball stops sooner than the original, won't it?

No...if a non-magnetic ball stops that will not mean that there is no rotating magnetic array under the central dome. Determinining if the central dome of Finsrud's device contains hidden moving magnets is easy to determine. Simply place a small compass near the dome as the regular metal ball rolls continuously around the track. If that ball is being swept along by a rotating magnetic field, then the compass should react violently every time the central dome's magnetic field sweeps past it.

However, what if the non-magnetic ball also continues to roll continuously around the track?! This is a possibility for certain types of fake devices.

It's possible that the motion of the ball could be maintained by the almost imperceptible precession of the circular track on which it rolls. If that track is suspended in the air by arms from the central dome, then there could be a hidden cam operated mechanism in there that very gently tilts the track so as to apply gravitational force to the ball to keep it in motion.


If you are allowed to examine the device up close, then you might want to consider the possibility of the track itself being moved. I would also recommend that you inspect directly below the device on the floor below it for any evidence of hidden wiring. The possibility of such an external power supply would, of course, be eliminated IF you could get the inventor's permission to move the device to another location in the gallery.


ken

[Wheeler]

I think we have asked Omnibus all for all he can contribute and maybe he will consider simply to have the inventor defend his invention.
Seems like this would be what Finsrud would want if he did have something that science had interest in.

Unless the inventor himself is willing to offer input,I think the device is a simple toy, and a very well built one at that.

There are indeed hundreds of ways to make the machine work with all the unknown hidden doors like the tower etc.

[Omnibus]

@ken_behrendt, @Wheeler,

From the conversations I had with Finsrud I am with the impression that he isnÂ’t interested in proving anything to anybody. Therefore, most non-invasive protocol has to be applied if one wants to convince himself as to whether this is a real perpetuum mobile or not. I donÂ’t think he would cooperate, especially in moving the device to confirm there are no cables or allowing to inspect the insides of the supporting column etc.

As for the discussion regarding the non-magnetic ball, I see the role of that ball as a way to disprove the existence of any hidden energy source. If the non-metallic ball stops soon that would be a sure proof thereÂ’s no such hidden source (high frequency switches seems a far-fetched idea). It is true that moving magnets due to a hidden source may be detected via a compass but a hidden source of a mechanical nature cannot. The short run of the non-magnetic ball will exclude both electrical and mechanical hidden sources.

Of course, these ideas to confirm reality of FinsrudÂ’s device as a perpetuum mobile are most likely to remain just hypothetical since Finsrud doesnÂ’t seem to be forthcoming so far.

[ovyyus]

Of course, these ideas to confirm reality of FinsrudÂ’s device as a perpetuum mobile are most likely to remain just hypothetical since Finsrud doesnÂ’t seem to be forthcoming so far.

Until Finsrud decides otherwise, "conclusive verification" seems impossible. Perhaps that's the way he wants it?

[rlortie]

Having just posted the following at
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... 4974#34974

Made me think of this thread and the implications it might involve.

If the Patent Board of Appeals agree that magnetic forced movement is not PM, then what effect does this hold on the Finsrud Mobile?

IMO a lot of the artistic work involved in Finsrud's machine is for art's sake and deception, and has nothing to do with its mode of operation.

Ralph

[10x]

Hmm only two threads on a search for this. Videos showing working for 45 min. LOL easer to believe Bessler and not this guy? A study of such could give a good reason for them pendulums on the out side of the wheel drawings ehh?

[scott]

Hm, when I search this forum for "finsrud" I get 19 topics and 95 posts. When I search the old archived forum I get 14 hits.

What are you searching?

[10x]

Thanks. By the way load stone existed in Besslers time. If he was around clock and watches as said; he would have had a good understanding of magnetics.

[Fletcher]

Here is Bessler's inventory after his death - prepared by forum member Stewart Hughes - You will find reference to 2 magnetic stones there.

http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... =3996#3996