Apologia Poetica Translation

[Stewart]

I've often wondered just how well AP has been translated and if a bit of poetic licence has been used. I thought we might be missing something so I thought I'd have a go at translating a section of AP just to see what I got. I don't know much German so I've used various online translators and german dictionaries to do it. The result is probably more of a literal translation than the version we have read on this site which does seem to use a bit of poetic licence. I've used the german text from John's book in the translation and I get this:

One sees a wheel and also no wheel,
Because it has rims and also none.
Runs without in and external wheels,
Zimbelgewicht*, wind and watch spring.
Here half sees, there completely sees;
It boast like a peacock's tail.
It runs to the rights and to the lefts;
One may wave to him only with fingers
It spreads out the long and across;
Here it is full, there it is empty;

(*Zimbelgewicht - I couldn't work this out although Zimbel = symbol and gewicht = weight)

To make it read better in english I'd change it to this:

One sees a wheel and also no wheel,
Because it has rims and also none.
It runs without internal and external wheels,
weights?, wind and watch springs.
Here it is half seen, there it is completely seen;
It boasts like a peacock's tail.
It runs to the right and to the left;
One may wave to him only with fingers.*
It spreads out along? and across;
Here it is full, there it is empty;

*One may wave to him only with fingers - where has this come from? I can't see anything remotely like this in any translation we have seen before. John - should this line really be there (Man darf ihm nur mit Fingern winken.)?

Here is the translation from this site and John's book:

A wheel appears - is it really a wheel, for it does not have a normal rim.
It revolves, but without other wheels inside or outside,
and without weights, wind or springs.
Seen sideways or full-face it is as glorious as a peacockÂ’s tail.
It turns to the right and to the left;
it spins around in any direction, whether laden or empty.

There seem to be a few differences so I thought this was interesting. Please post comments or other suggested translations.

All the best
Stewart

[Stewart]

One sees a wheel and also no wheel,
Because it has rims and also none.

- I imagine this to be refering to a wheel-like device at the heart of the main wheel (the "inner" wheel).

It runs without internal and external wheels,
weights?, wind and watch springs.

- I'd like to know what Zimbelgewicht means as it must mean more than just a simple weight.

Here it is half seen, there it is completely seen;
It boasts like a peacock's tail.

- I have a vision of a device like a peacock's tail that fans open, and closed (perhaps also a form of the lazy-tongs/scissor mechanism)

It runs to the right and to the left;
One may wave to him only with fingers.

- No idea what this means yet

It spreads out along and across;
Here it is full, there it is empty;

- I have more visions of spreading lazy-tong/scissor mechanism, with something catching and holding a weight and then releasing it or a container filling and emptying with water.

Just a few thoughts.

Stewart

[Jonathan]

"runs...right...left" reminds me of the bidirectional wheels. The fingers reference reminds me of the newer Jacob's Ladder interpretation (that the pictures might be showing a mechanical finger or window blind type mechanism).

[Neo]

Stewart,

Perhaps it works like a Wave Machine wraped around the axis?

http://www.physics.ucla.edu/demoweb/dem ... chine.html

[Stewart]

Can anyone offer a better translation of this please:

Man darf ihm nur mit Fingern winken.

winken could be beckons or waves I suppose.

Can anyone translate this too please:

Zimbelgewicht

Thanks.
Stewart

[Jonathan]

I've come up with a little something, I've found that "winken" can also be sign or signal, in which case not only may it be refering to what the motions within the wheel look like, but it may also be talking about communicating (energy) or interacting with 'fingers'. Also, "to him" could also be "it" so that instead of waving 'at' you while it works, it could also be the latter of the previous.
EDIT
Also, I just found that "fingern" is a verb, to fiddle, to fumble. 'To point' also? I still can't find much for 'Zimbelgewicht', but I'm getting the impression that 'Zimbel' is cymbal, not symbol, so it might indicate 'disc shaped weight'.

[Stewart]

Hi Jonathan

Thanks for your help. I got beckon also for winken. Sorry I meant cymbal not symbol.

How about this:
Es breitet sich die Lang und Quer

I got:
It spreads out the long and across

Could this mean:
It spreads out along and across
or,
It spreads out the length and width

It suggests to me the fanning or expanding of a lazy-tongs/scissor mechanism. Perhaps expanding equally in all directions? Well actually just in 2 dimensions, but you know what I mean. Similar to the hoberman sphere but in two dimensions:

www.hoberman.com

All the best
Stewart

[Stewart]

I'm getting quite excited by this as I think a lazy-tong/scissor mechanism that forms a complete circle and expands/contracts similar to a hoberman sphere (but in two dimensions) seems to fit alot of Bessler's clues in that section of AP. He mentions an unusual type of wheel with a strange rim. He talks of it being half seen and completely seen - could this mean its half seen when contracted (half the size) and fully seen when expanded (full size)? It's like a peacock's tail - it fans/spreads out. It runs/turns to the right and left - so it does revolve also. As Jonathan suggests, "fingers" may interact with it in some way. It spreads out along and across (length and width?) - it expands equally in two dimensions. Here it is full, there it is empty - could this be describing that when it is contracted it looks full and when it is expanded it looks empty (see hoberman sphere)?

This is also along the lines of what Jonathan was experimenting with and posted about recently. He noted that a scissor mechanism in a complete circle resembled the dodecagram in MT. Jonathan - did you manage to build a circular expanding mechanism? I'm going to try building one as soon as I can. I've built scissor mechs in wheels in past experiments but I've never tried a complete circle. Not sure exactly how this is going to work in a completed Bessler wheel, but I have a good feeling about it.

All the best
Stewart

[Jonathan]

I too am very interested, but do not try to make my curving jack go in a complete circle, it is perfectly rigid every time, I've tried it several ways. However, if memory serves in the past week or so I had something that did take a linear movement in the center and turn it into a smaller but stronger movement outward/inward everywhere on the periphery. Also I have a hoberman sphere, I'll look at it closely and see if I can make a 2D version.

[John Collins]

Hi Guys - good work on trying to see through the metaphors!

“Zimbelgewicht” in the original text was written "zimbel-gewicht". Zimbel means the musical cymbal and gewicht has various meanings connected with weight, heaviness etc. Gewicht may be further split into ge-wicht, and it can be seen that wicht is similar to our weight and has the same derivation, the ge-, part means that the word has something done to it as in our verb endings. My own investigations into this text convince me that this is another refernce to cymbala, to which Bessler refers elsewhere in Apologia. In my book you will see a drawing of a cymbalum. It is a musical instrument which consists of a number of small tuned bells which are struck with a small hammer. I think the the word means cymbalum hammer. Remember that Bessler knew a lot about music and musical instruments especially organs.

The rest of the text may contain slang not obvious to us, for instance "Es breitet sich die Lang und Quer" can mean "it is wide as it is long" or it may mean "is as broad as its long", which could mean "its tantamount to" or "its almost the same thing".

I'm still looking at the "fingern" query. I can't explain the difference in translation yet.

John Collins

[Jonathan]

I get something to the effect of "It spreads itself long and at an angle" as another alternative.

[Jonathan]

I took a good look at my Hoberman sphere, and I've replicated it in 2D with K'nex. Here is a picture I've drawn, all the levers are the same, two equal lengths at a non-180 degree angle. To clarify, there are two layers, one spirals one way and the other the other, outlined here as lines of different thickness. All corners have joints. Also, the levers spiral so that the smaller of the two angles between the lever arms (the one that is <180 degrees by definition) is always faced a little toward the center when compressed, a lot toward the center when expanded.

[Stewart]

Hi John

Thanks for the info. That is interesting about the cymbalum hammer. The two lines where Zimbelgewicht appears describe what doesn't make this strange "wheel" run. It seems a bit specific to say that "it runs without internal and external wheels, cymbalum hammers, wind and watch springs". I think instead that it means cymbalum weights or more generally hanging weights. He's trying to tell us it isn't powered by the normal methods of powering a cymbala or carillion - hanging/hoisting weights, wind/air, watch/clock/coiled springs. This has always been one of the theories and is supported by what Bessler says in Das Triumphirende:
"Other automatic machines, such as clockwork, springs, and hoisting weights, necessarily require an external restoring force."

The problem I had was the fact that the translation said "It revolves, but without other wheels inside or outside, and without weights, wind, or springs." and I took this to mean no weights at all. Now I'm happy that it means hanging weights and so now other uses of weights are possible. It's amazing how one badly translated word can throw you right off course! I no longer think that this passage suggests the use of magnets as I mentioned in another post.

All the best
Stewart

[Stewart]

Hi Jonathan

That's great. I'm going to try building one when I get some spare time. I'm also thinking of a folding design, that fans out like a peacock's tail. Other thoughts on the first idea - how would it be attached - could it have scissor arms that attach it to the hub it revolves around, or would it just hang from the hub. Would the hub have teeth that engage in it? "One may wave/beckon/signal to it only with fingers." Could this be talking about the only connection to it being fingers or teeth engaging in it? My thoughts are that this device being described is lifting the weights and then releasing them to the main wheel - "Here it is full, there it is empty".

All the best
Stewart

[Jonathan]

My thoughts are along those lines. Also, the method of stamp lifting shown here:
http://www.besslerwheel.com/images/One- ... Figure.jpg
is similar to both 'fingers' and scissor/jacks (it is a bit of a story why I call them jacks).
There is something to know about the hoberman sphere that may be relevant, if instead of a complete circle you have only an arc, the number of degrees in that arc is constant regardless of how far it is extended, the only thing that changes is radius (its self evident when you think about it).