Apologia Poetica Translation

[Stewart]

Hi John

From Das Triumphirende:
"Other automatic machines, such as clockwork, springs, and hoisting weights, necessarily require an external restoring force."

What word(s) were used in the German text for "hoisting weights"?

Thanks,
Stewart

[Michael]

Off Topic,
Jonathan can I ask you what you do for a job? You seem to have a lot of free time.

Mike

[Michael]

This is more evidence of a mixup of terms and meanings. What about the wheel running on cross beams and pulleys for more torque? Something also said.

Respectively,

Michael

[epistemologicide]

jonathan is a humanitarian (and a talented one too)

and contributes his time to free energy, the only thing worth contributing too at the moment. encase you havent noticed the planet is dying.

[jim_mich]

. encase you havent noticed the planet is dying.

I think the planet is very much alive and well. It still heals itself very quickly. It seems to have a mild infection of humanoids at the moment. If these humanoids cause too much irritation the planet will just rid itself of them. But in many cases I think the humanoids help the planet. They have this uncanny knack of turning some of the swamps and deserts into gardens, fields, lakes and lawns making the planet a much more beautiful place.

[Jonathan]

I like to agree with epi here :). Jim's right that we aren't that bad, and though I'm certain that the deserts pretty much everywhere are getting bigger, one can't say for sure if it's our fault.
I don't understand:

This is more evidence of a mixup of terms and meanings. What about the wheel running on cross beams and pulleys for more torque? Something also said.

And to answer your question, I'm an oil mogul:

[Tinhead]

If someone could post the complete german text, I could maybe be of help (at least I am german). Translating single words 'out of context' will only raise more confusion. As a kid I learned the 'old style' german and I'm still used to its flowerish grammar.

Cheers,
Rainer

P.S. 'mit den Fingern winken' looks like an opening/closing peacocks tail

[Jonathan]

I think we should not only translate the whole thing, but also word by word, because we are supposed to read between the lines and if we consider every possible form of every word we will have a more complete picture. The poetry of it is untranslatable, but we could recognize puns.

[MrTim]

If vegetarians eat vegetables, then what do humanitarians eat?

If someone could post the complete german text,

Or a link to it....?

[epistemologicide]

i dont know but Cannibalism does put humanity back through the eco system

that was a Pessimism joke ala oxygon style :D

[Jonathan]

Humanitarians eat smaller humanitarians :).
Anyway, I actually have a point to posting, what does your signature mean MrTim? I know I haven't read it anywhere, so you made it up, but I don't get it.

[Stewart]

Hi Rainer

It would be great if you could translate it - the more translation attempts the better if you ask me, to give us many interpretations as possible. I can't post the German text of AP from John's book without his permission, so hopefully John will post it for us. John's new book will have the complete German text and English translation of the whole of Apologia and not just the poem we've all seen - so you might want to wait for that.

All the best
Stewart

[Michael]

Hi Stewart, John, and everyone else,

Stewart, pursue it but I don't think it's correct, hope you don't mind me saying so. Here's my argument as to why.

Let's assume that Bessler's wheel was genuine, and that it's main source of drive was gravity. I say main for a reason and I'll sum it up later. Bessler boasted that he was a master builder. A master builder would use his/her knowledge of structure in anything they pursue/accomplish. Bessler was also a man of his time. And a man of knowledge. Alchemy seems foreign to todays person, but a few hundred years ago and earlier, it was a well understood practice as anything is today. It was an art of it's time. It's symbol's were catagorizations in the same way as today's science uses it's terms. Quarks, are an example. It's terms had specific meanings. Even Newton pursued it. My advice is to forget the net in researching. Most of the net is eighty percent B.S. Go to a library or a book store and get a good reference book on alchemy. I would also stay away from airy fairy new age writers, or writers that decifer alchemies true meanings as psychological symbolism. I haven't figured out yet if that's been done to make a buck, or if it's ignorance or purposeful diversion.
So...structure. Language is also structure. Being a master builder, Bessler would have made full use of a well structured work of words. This is a good basis for John's belief that there is possibly a hidden code in some of Bessler's writings. Language, as structure has a few rules. The opening sentence of a paragraph always states what the paragraph is to be about. As well, a written work can contain an preface, or a prologue, the main body of work, and sometimes an epilogue, which is additional information the writer may want to impart to the reader. The epilogue relates to the main body of work, but isn't built into the main body. It's an addion. The preface is the content that informs the reader how the main body of work is to be interpreted, or understood. I carefully looked at Bessler's poem, an I am of the opinion he fully used a prologue, main body, and an epilogue in his work . The writings prologue starts out with, in contemplation of my wheel, contemplate the rich pagent of words. Pagent and pagen have the same root. They mean a precession of symbols and images that have meaning, that follow a heiarchal order. Examples of this are the greek "pagen" images, where the order is the greatest first ie. Zeus, is the head god. He uses lightning bolts (electricity) as his main tool. Then comes apollo, the sun god, etc down to the lowest. Same as hinduism and any other "religion". Interestingly Egypt was always changing it's hiearchal order of it's pagentry, due to what knowledge they gained. Rich of course means a lot of. Rich pagent of words. Bessler is stating that this poem has a hiearchal order. The greatest is first, namely the principle that is the main driving force of the wheel. Gravity. Then comes the inner mechanisms that this force drives, (snip edit, see last posting as to why.) Lastly comes the outer shell of the wheel. As I said, the opening sentence always states what the content of the paragraph is about. In the last section Bessler is, in a way, taunting the reader, and telling the truth of it. You see a wheel, but is it? You don't know because all you see is the outer. It is all you will ever see. It turns to the left and to the right. It will turn either weighted down (as with a load) or without. You signal it with your fingers. Signal it to do what?...To move!
>" The machine was started by a very light push with just two fingers and accelerated as soon as one of the weights, hidden inside, bagan to fall. Within about one revolution, the machine had aquired a strong and even rotation, even when a box was lifted, which had been filled with six whole bricks weighing together about seventy pounds. - Certificate for wheel tested at Merseburg, signed 31st October, 1715."

I cut a part out of my other thread on my MAJOR clue thread because I wasn't sure how to place it. Now I do. The emphasis of the importance of that thread should be discarded. The peacock's tail, and especially in reference to the use of "prideful, or boastful, in the language of the time means entropy. That's also why it's refered to lucifer, or that lucifer is the peacock. Lucifer is boastful. Entropy doesn't mean destruction. That's why it has immortal associated with it. It is the conservation of energy rule. Nothing is destroyed. But it does mean decay. Or falling into a lower form. Lucifer to hell, energy to MATTER. Bessler is not saying this is the basis of his machine. He is saying all you see is the shell of the machine. All you see is gross matter. All you see, and all you will ever see of it is the material
form subject to entropy.
Bessler also has a section where he states all thing belong to one of three kingdoms. The evidence is here before you. In otherwords, this poem has three kingdoms, or sections to it. It's right in front of you. . First there is the preface. Then there is the main body of work, and finally there is the epilogue. As well the main body also has three main sections in heiarchal order from the greatest to the least great. The main driving principle. The inner mechanism/s. And finally the outer "base" gross material shell.
It's also wise to regard how paraniod Bessler might have been, as evidenced by writtings of others. Enough to smash his own machines if others got to close. Or become enraged. John states he didn't even tell his own wife or brother how they worked. Enough that some stated he was mad. So would such a man have placed all the information on how his wheel worked into his writtings, no matter how clever his codes were? I say this because I think that in the ending, the epilogue of the poem he was being generous, yet gave nothing of it away, except for what might amount to a secondary driving force. The polterguist. Namely magnetism. Gravity being the primary. Polterguist is an invisible force. Polterguists are earth bound spirits, so sure it still could have meant gravity. But I don't think so. If it had said polterguists wander back to the earth, or to their graves, then yes I could see it. But he is saying they wander through locked doors, and then ends it by saying, but speak softly of these (this) marvel, lest someone grow wise. Obviously he is saying, say next to nothing at all about this feature. If it was gravity he was refering to, why would he be so cautious since he already alluded to gravity being the main driving force in the first place? Bessler said only a person of discernment would be able to understand what he left behind. To discern means to be able to judge. To judge well one must have knowledge. To judge this one must have the knowledge of the time, ie. Alchemy and it's true meanings, as well as other occult (hidden) knowledge. You can't base it on what you think you know from today.

Regards to all,

Michael

[joppa]

The Bessler conundrum is truly intriguing and becomes more so the deeper one becomes mired in it's nebulous folds. Perhaps Michael is correct when speaking of an 'occult' element at work. Is it even plausible that Bessler had considered that he held the 'key to the bottomless pit'? This talk of 'lucifer' the 'peacock' and his fall into the pit......how could he get out but for the means of applying the power of the 'black hole' against itself? Surely his math is more advanced than man's.....but there must be more to it than this......if the 'gravity wheel' is such a key then it is the math it represents that is used to accomplish this task in some terrible way. Really that is the role to which a 'gravity wheel' is best suited.....as a key to much more powerful concepts......and it has been my limited observation that power corrupts......

[John Collins]

The poltergeist element may hearken back to Bessler's former brief excursion into buried treasure hunting. In those days it was believed that buried treasure was guarded by poltergeists and to succeed in finding it you needed to sfind the poltergeist. Bessler's mother-in-law was one of those who was accused of witch craft for reasons I won't go into here, and she was involved in treasure hunting. It may be that Bessler is saying that we should not allow the poltergeists to hear our discussion in case they are guarding his buried treasure? Stewart, you're the expert in this and similar fields, perhaps you have an angle on this?

John Collins