Increase efficiency of rotating shaft.

[Jigar111]

we can increase efficiency of rotating shaft. we can lift mass using less energy by using simple mechanism. please take few minute to read .we can use this technology in power plants and transportation vehicles.
The base of this theorey is force or weight is stationary and it can help to rotate pulleys . we can convert gravitational force into energy while the mass or weight is stationary.
The figure(energy efficiency) is in cross section. as shown in figure, there are two cases. in each case there are two pulleys of same diameter. each pulley is of exactly circular shape.In first case 50 k.g weight is fixed with each pulley as shown in figure. The center of each pulley is fixed. Between these two pulleys there is a stationary plate. plate will remain stationary, while rotating the pulleys because centers of pulleys are fixed. 100 k.g weight is put on this plate. The force or weight of plate is applied on these two pulleys in vertical downward direction. now we try to rotate slowly first pulley in clockwise direction and second pulley in anti clockwise direction. lubrication is provided between the contact surfaces of stationary plate and pulleys.
In second case two pulleys of same diameter. 50 k.g weight is also fixed with each pulley, but there is no stationary plate and 100 k.g weight. Now we try to rotate slowly first pulley in clockwise direction and second pulley in anti clockwise direction.
As free body diagram in first case we can rotate pulleys using less moment of force. we can lift mass using less energy.

1. In case 1) the moment necessary to rotate each pulley is

m=(-g/2cos(bita)+g1*cos(alpha))*r
where:
g is weight of plate (=100 kg)
g1 is given weight (=50 kg)
alpha and bita are angle of rotation of each pulley
r is radius of pulley
2. In case 2) weigt of plate g=0.

[jim_mich]

Jigar,
Welcome to the Besslerwheel forum.

Your 100 kg weight will not give any rotational force to the two pulleys. This is easy to prove by setting up an experiment as you describe. Depending on the spacing between the pulleys, the shape of the ends of the weight and how far down the weight makes contact with the pulleys, the weight will wedge between the pulleys and act as a brake -or- the weight will roll both pulleys a same direction and the weight will fall between the pulleys. The weight will never push the pulleys in opposite directions. For that to happen the pulleys would need to slip against the ends of the weight as it pushes on the pulley. It will not happen. What you have is a very good braking system.

[Bessler007]

Jigar111,

Earlier I saw a reply describing this idea as a braking system. The idea was that the 100kg weight wouldn't give any torque. If the weight were longer than the spacing between the pulleys it would lodge and act as a brake. The main point was that the weight would never push the pulleys in opposite directions unless the pulleys would slip against the ends of the weight.

What do you think?

☯

[LustInBlack]

I believe this can almost be described as a two-way ratchet mechanism, where the plate would stop the pulleys from reversing but would let them being rotated with minimum torque applied.. Not unlike a brake, where you modulate the handle to give more or less braking.

Maybe you are trying to trade lifting weight by pushing weight..

Let me explain, when you push forward an object that rest on the ground, you apply less force to push it forward then you would need to simply lift the object in your hands then move your body foward .. (let's suppose the object is on wheel for example, where friction is at a minimum) .

However, you will need more force to overcome friction.


I think, what you are trying to do, is like a dynamic counter-weight system, where the counter-weight wouldn't move.


I think it's an Interesting idea, maybe it can be applied in a different way however!

[Gregory]

Hello Jigar, I'm Greg again,

I told you at overunity.com that unfortunately this won't work. Sorry that I didn't respond any more after that. I also liked the idea at first sight, but after I tested it in WM I realized how it works.

I can say only the same. The problem is that the stationary weight can't give any force to the pulleys, because it's not changing its position. You can put an 1000 Kg weight on the pulleys and still nothing happens.

When the friction is high the pulleys are unable to rotate. When the friction is low they begin to swing down & up like a pendulum, affected by a few friction.

To see something similar in reality, try to rotate a CD disk with your finger, but don't move your finger, only touch the CD and absolutely statically "fix" your finger there. If you don't move your finger, there is no chance to apply any motion to the Cd disk, doesn't matter how much your finger weight. It's almost the same with the pulleys and the big weight.

When the stationary weight is fixed to a spring (for example) and allowed to swing up & down by the spring, it can periodically push the pulleys and rotate them if there are no weights attached to them. But this case has very limited usability.

Anyway, I can say the analogue of your idea is very interesting to think about. But how to apply for real...? I don't know...

BTW, welcome here on the board! :)

Greg

[LustInBlack]

Greg, I love your Avatar!

I have to change mine now . .

8]

[Gregory]

Hi Lib, Thanks!

I've just created today. In fact those black curves drew inside Working Model with the use of one of my old mechanism which can be configured to draw a lot of strange star shapes, other curves, and maybe a few fractal like patterns.

Of course, They are the movement tracks of two opposite weights after rotated through 360 degrees by a motor. ;)

Greg

[LustInBlack]

Hey Greg,

Really!? Fractals! .. I like it, if you want to share these mech I'd be happy!

I like chaos and fractals! 8]

[Gregory]

Hey Greg,

Really!? Fractals! .. I like it, if you want to share these mech I'd be happy!

I like chaos and fractals! 8]

Not complete chaotic fractals, because for that purpose it must be a very insane mech... :) While this is basically a very simple one just with some complexity. But a few patterns and curves I drew with it partly reminded me to some kind of fractals.

I still have some unfinished testing with this mech, because it has some unusual properties, but once I finished playing with it I will post for you, I promise. At this time I don't know when, so time will tell...

But study planetary gear systems carefully, consider stacking in WM, and you can easily make a mechanism with similar abilities.

[scott]

Hi Jigar and welcome to the forum. Thanks for sharing your idea but in the future please don't double post the same thing in two forums. I merged your two topics into one here.
-Scott

[Jigar111]

The weight of plate is applied in vertical downward direction. It will devided in two parts. One is tengential and second is toward centre. The tengential force hepls pulley to rotate. If tengential force is not applying than free body diagram is wrong. Newton`s Gravitational law is wrong. As per your opinion you are reducing and changing direction of gravitational force and this is impossible.There also energy is created if you reduce or change direction of gravitational force.There may be dynamic balancing problem, There may be friction problem. But we can tacle these problem by making smooth surfaces, By providing good lubrication,By reducing contact area and by putting bearings or jernals on plate at contact surfaces of plate and pulleys.

[jim_mich]

The tengential force hepls pulley to rotate.

Force alone will not make the pulley rotate. To rotate the pulley requires force AND movement. You have the 100 Kg weight just sitting there. The 100 Kg weight is not moving! How can it push the pulley if the weight doesn't move? Please go back to grade school and learn basic physics!

[Jigar111]

You mean if weight is stationary than it is not applying on pulleys. so 100 kg weight of plate is not applying on two pulleys in vertical downward direction. You mean weight is disappear. you mean newton is wrong because weight is not applying in vertical downward direction because weight is stationary. School physics say weight or gravitational force can never be disappeared weather it is stationary or moving , it is applying.

[jim_mich]

Jigar, you are starting to irritate me. Go get a bicycle or a toy car. Turn it upside down. Put a board or stick between the wheels according to your drawing. See what happens. See if you can make the wheels turn by trying to push the board/stick down between the wheel. All that will happen is you will have have made an excellent braking system.

[Gregory]

You mean if weight is stationary than it is not applying on pulleys. so 100 kg weight of plate is not applying on two pulleys in vertical downward direction. You mean weight is disappear. you mean newton is wrong because weight is not applying in vertical downward direction because weight is stationary. School physics say weight or gravitational force can never be disappeared weather it is stationary or moving , it is applying.

Jigar,
The laws are correct, all in play, and the force of your plate is continously applying on the axles of the pulleys. But that's all what happens and nothing more. No motion possible in this way. Take two branches (of tree) and place them on (between) two table as bridges. Then place a piece of board on the branches. Very similar. The diameter of the pulleys doesn't change the result.

Try what Jim_mich mentioned and you will see what happens.