Apologia Poetica Translation

[John Collins]

Here is the original German text copied straight from my new book which contains that plus an English translation. Please feel free to discuss it on this forum but please acknowledge my work on this. It is due out next week or the week after. I am just getting the ISBN organised prior to printing and binding.
The numbers in brackets refer to the original text page numbers and in my edition each page of the original is represented as accurately as possible. You will notice the presence of a number of Xs at the end of some lines, that is as the original.

"Der Geiz ist eine Wurzel böß’
Ein Amboß krieget viele Stöß’.
Ein Fuhrmann fährt, ein Läufer läuffet;
Der Seher sieht, der Käufer käuffet,

(89)
Der Regen fliess’t, der Schnee der fällt;
Die Büchse schiess’t, der Bogen schnellt;
hier wandern eine große Heerde
Sehr fette, faule, dicke Pferde;
Die Flegel wollen insgemein
Bei Dreschern, nicht bei Doctor’n sein’
Die Kinder spielen auf den Säulgen
Mit lauter schweren Schniebe-käulgen;
Lufft-Springer Feder-fechter sind
Geschwind und hurtig wie der Wind.
Die schlaue Katze schleichet leise,
Und haschet feine fette Mäuse.
Der Hund auch aus der Hütten kreuch’t,
Doch nur so weit die Kette reich’t.
Die schönen Schätzen und Machinen
Weiß er sehr freundlich zu bedienen;
Er wädelt wohl mit seinem Schweiff
Kriecht auf dem Bauche durch den Reiff,
Dafür ihn bald die dürren Poppen
Auch ziemlich auf die Pfoten kloppen; x
Man sieht ein Rad, und auch kein Rad,
Weils Felgen und auch keine hat.
Läufft ohne in’ und äußre Räder,
Zimbel-Gewicht, Wind und Uhr-Feder, x
Hier siehets halb, dort siehets ganz;
Es prahlet wie ein Pfauen-Schwanz. x
Es läuff’t zur Rechten und zur Linken;
Man darff ihm nur mit Fingern winken.
Es breitet sich die Läng’ und Quer’,
Hier ist es voll, dort ist es leer’;
Ein Ding besteh’t aus den drei Reichen;
Ihr habet hand-greiffliche Zeichen,

(90)
Ohn’ Schwefel, Salz, Mercurius
Auch bald ein Ding verfließen muß. x
Der Elementen Qualitäten
Auch jedem Dinge sind vonnöhten.
Saturnus, Mars, Jupiter fein
Zu jederm Kriege willig sein. x
Das Ding auch, (wovon man sich nähret)
Durch Därm und Mark und Beine fähret; x
Ein Krebs vorwerts und rücklings kriecht
Und ist gesund (wohl zugericht.)
Die Polter-Geister frei spaziren
Zum öftern durch verschloss’ne Thüren; x
Zwar stille, stille, und genug,
Genug, sonst wird der Feind nur klug;
Der Feind, als der mich will begeifern,
Begeifern, ich sol mich ereifern,
Ereifern und auf frischer That
Den Mantel werffen von dem Rad; x
Doch dieser Wunsch wird ihm mißlingen;
Sein Schnauzen mich dahin nicht bringen;
Dies sei an seinen Ort gestell’t:
Ich will vielmehr der werthen Welt
Großgünstig in das Buch noch tragen
Nachfolgende besondre Fragen;
Als welche mir sind zugesandt
Nur neulich von gar hoher hand;

John Collins

[Stewart]

Hi Michael

Sorry I'm not sure I follow - what don't you think is correct? Of course I don't mind you saying so though - that's what this forum's about, and I enjoy discussing this stuff, especially with you, whether we agree on something or not.

I agree that to understand Bessler and his wheel we must immerse ourselves in the history and science of the time, and also learn about the things we know Bessler knew and wrote about (i.e. alchemy, carillion/organ building, German, Hebrew, the Bible, to name just a few). This is what I am trying to do. You're right to advise not to believe everything you read on the internet, but there are many good sites with useful info. There are lots of good books on Alchemy to be found, but as with the Internet I'm sure there are also inaccurate ones out there also. I'm in the middle of reading one at the moment - I'll let you know if its any good when I've finished it.
I like your observations on the structure of AP. I don't think Bessler is giving away too much when we read the literal words of the piece - I think he has coded all relevant info. Maybe I am reading too much into it and taking it too literally, but it doesn't hurt to explore all possible angles. The part of AP I talked about at the beginning of this topic I don't think we can say suggests the use of magnets anymore. I did originally think this until discovering that the German word used was refering to a specfic use of weights and therefore not excluding all uses of weights. I haven't ruled out the use of magnets in the wheel though, as like you I still think the Poltergeists part could indicate the use of magnets. I certainly don't think the Poltergeists part refers to gravity for reasons I've mentioned in another post.
Anyway, it's all interesting stuff and the more we discuss it the nearer we get to solving it!

All the best
Stewart

[Stewart]

Hi John

Many thanks for posting the German text of AP. Hopefully a few more people will give us their own views on its meaning and provide some translations into English. That's very interesting about the treasure hunting - I remember reading about Bessler's exploits in treasure hunting in your book, but hadn't thought any more about it. I don't consider myself as being an expert in anything, but I'll certainly think about this and see what I can come up with. Michael - wasn't it you that suggested that AP was a treasure map that led to where either written works of the wheel were buried or the wheel itself? I thought that was a really interesting idea and this info from John could support that.

I'm really looking forward to the new book now John - good luck with getting it ready for next week.

All the best
Stewart

I found Michael's post from the old site:
http://www.besslerwheel.com/wwwboard/me ... /3318.html

[Michael]

Hi Stewart,

>"Hi Michael

Sorry I'm not sure I follow - what don't you think is correct?"

Your looking into the part of the Peacock as a structure within the wheel, when that part of the poem is placed in a section that talks just about the outside details of the wheel. Length, width, a wheel or is it, moves left to right whether loaded or not, starts with just a push with the fingers. I'm not just stating this because it is my idea, I am stating it because it is absolutely correct that the peacock's tail means entropy. I'll site more references if I need to, ones where it says point blank the peacock means decay. But I recommend you or others look for it yourselves, just to see with your own eye's. In this section of the poem Bessler is talking only about the surface of the wheel. Gross matter subject to decay. There are then three main heiarchal (pagentry) parts to the poem.
The greatest, ie gravity, from which the wheel gets it's main motion.
The inner, ie. machinery working on gravity.
The outer, the look, the bulk gross of the wheel.

I have to make an edit. I stated that the poem had some content that named some of the materials used, like iron and lead. I was going off of memory here and thought that was placed in with the inner mechanism's and I now see it was put in the epilogue section, which makes alot more sense. Also Stewart, I know I put your name first but I hope you don't misunderstand and think I was chastising you to only look at relevent material, I was only being generalistic. It was for anybody.



>"I haven't ruled out the use of magnets in the wheel though, as like you I still think the Poltergeists part could indicate the use of magnets. I certainly don't think the Poltergeists part refers to gravity for reasons I've mentioned in another post."

I agree, it's starts to fall apart otherwise. Your right by the way I was the one who suggested a treasure map idea. Not sure why John hasn't acknowledged much, John are you mad at me for earlier taking a criticle stance? It's not meant to be personal if so. I know your digging in your heels at it even possibly having something else besides gravity. Bessler didn't want anyone to really guess it though, right? It shows in his temperment, as well he opens the poem with my deeds wont be reveiled prematurely. Obviously then he wouldn't commit everything to paper, and he would be the one to reveil it. Doesn't this make sense to you?


Joppa, the occult only means hidden. Lucifer etc. are only analogies that were used to denote an observed process.

Regards,

Michael

[joppa]

An anachronistic character, that Johann.....his allegories better befit the times in which we live. You miss the point entirely, Mike....perhaps that is as it should be. In these times, like no other, one would do well to be careful in that which one chooses to learn. "With great power comes great responsibility".......truly he that seeks the former is not worthy of it.

Johann died a wise man, perhaps his last realization being the ironic reckoning that his 'conquered' foe would have with him.

[ovyyus]

Hi Michael,

You said:

I say this because I think that in the ending, the epilogue of the poem he was being generous, yet gave nothing of it away, except for what might amount to a secondary driving force. The polterguist. Namely magnetism. Gravity being the primary. Polterguist is an invisible force. Polterguists are earth bound spirits, so sure it still could have meant gravity. But I don't think so. If it had said polterguists wander back to the earth, or to their graves, then yes I could see it. But he is saying they wander through locked doors, and then ends it by saying, but speak softly of these (this) marvel, lest someone grow wise. Obviously he is saying, say next to nothing at all about this feature. If it was gravity he was refering to, why would he be so cautious since he already alluded to gravity being the main driving force in the first place? Bessler said only a person of discernment would be able to understand what he left behind. To discern means to be able to judge. To judge well one must have knowledge. To judge this one must have the knowledge of the time, ie. Alchemy and it's true meanings, as well as other occult (hidden) knowledge. You can't base it on what you think you know from today.

Good rave. Using one force in order to drive another is a constant searching theme throughout MT.

Bessler seemed to recognise that in order to harness gravity as a driving force he had to apply a more primary force in order to move the internal weights and upset the mass balance of the wheel, and therefore allow gravity (secondary force) to do it's work.

Remember his statement about the futility of attempting the overbalanced wheel? How does this make sense when we know his wheels were overbalanced? I think this statement does make sense when viewed from the position of another force acting to move the weights. Perhaps what he was implying was that without some method of applying a more primary force in order to move the weights, expecting any overbalance is a waste of time.

The reference to poltergeists moving through locked doors could be relating to any force capable of acting through a solid. Certainly magnetism might fit the bill, however, I fail to see how the apparently conservative force of magnetism can perform constant work.

Heat is an energy capable of acting through 'locked doors'. Unlike magnetism, heat can perform constant work if constantly supplied. But for heat to be a viable solution to Bessler's problem of finding a primary motive force in order to drive his weights then it had to be freely available and not produced within the wheel through any sort of chemical reaction. That means that if heat was utilised then it had to originate outside the wheel (environmental) and therefore, like a poltergeist, move freely and invisibly through 'locked doors', from the outside to within.

[PIMAN]

Excellent logicical thought is pouring from this thread, wow. But, Luke, there is another. Another peacock's tail, that is, and I'm surprised none of you has devoured on it already. Though it is rarely referred to as the 'peacocks tail'. There is another clue -- "Jupiter, Saturn, and Mars are ready to do battle" (or something like that). And another -- "The quality of the elements is essential to the". And more -- "Here it is full, there it is empty." I'm sure that Bessler is trying to lead us to none other than the Franciscan's cowl, The Brides Chair, The Peacock's tail, or the Windmill, which are all nicknames for Euclids proof of the Pythagorean, found in The Elements I.47. Here's a link to check out. You will notice some very familiar shapes on this page. Bessler is a clever one.

http://www.cut-the-knot.org/ctk/BridesChair.shtml

Carry on...
PIMAN

[Stewart]

Hi PIMAN

That's funny - that was going to be my next post!
Here's a good maths site with info on Euclid's Elements:
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Elements.html
It has links to all 13 books of the Elements at the top. You are right, there are familiar images within these books.

We have discused the "quality of the elements" in reference to Euclid's Elements before on the old discussion board, but I can't find the relevant posts at the moment. I'll keep looking and post a link here when I find them. However, I only discovered the "Peacock's Tail" link to Euclid a few days ago.

I think its very interesting that in alchemy "the quality of the elements" and "the peacock's tail" are important, and in maths "the elements" and "the peacock's tail" are also important. I doubt that this is a coincidence - I think Euclid made the association deliberately. Bessler would have been aware of both connotations I'm sure.

Here's a favourite link of mine on "the rotation of the elements" (a procedure in alchemy):
http://www.cs.utk.edu/~mclennan/OM/BA/RE.html

It talks of the importance of the qualities of the elements. It also has some interesting info which I think is relevant, including heat and heat transfer, which Ovyyus has mentioned as another possible meaning for the Poltergeists.

All the best
Stewart

[John Collins]

No offence intended Michael, and none taken, I added Stewart's name on the spur of the moment because I thought he had shown some success at digging up alchemical references and might expand on the poltergeist matter, although not necessarily through alchemy. I'm sure your idea of the treasure map is right and although I didn't think of that concept I guess I've been treating Apologia like that for quite a while.

I like Ovvyus' description of the primary force to move the weights and the secondary force of gravity to apply itself to move the wheel and I agree that MT seems to indicate that this is the key, but I don't see any reason why we shouldn't use gravity for both applications of the force. But I recognise that this is just my view and there may be other sources for the primary force such as magnetism or heat. It may be that Bessler did find a use for the leiden jar in this application. A small charge built up through the spinning of the wheel and stored within the leiden jar might be used to produce a sufficient attraction through electro-magnetism to move the weights a tiny bit - enough to over balance the wheel?

John Collins

[PIMAN]

Okay,

I'm going out on a tangent, but stay with me. ..

When Bessler removed a single weight from the wheel for the critics to examine, he wrapped it in a cloth to conceal it, yet allowed onlookers to touch and get a fairly good idea of the shape and volume of the weight. Why the cloth wrapper? Here's a thought...

Bessler seems to like speaking metaphorically, using terms shared by Geometry, Alchemy, Astronomy, and Theology. One clue is about the planets (Jupiter, Mars and Saturn). These three planets occasionally converge to form a triangle. They also represent metals in alchemy. Namely iron, tin and lead. Perhaps the weights needed to be covered to conceal not the shape, but the 'element' it was made of.

Using wights made of different metals would allow for them to occupy the same space and positions while shifting the center of gravity. In addition, they're magnetic properties are different which could allow one wight to pass through a hole or slot, while the next could be stopped or forced to change direction by a magnetic 'poltergeist'.

"I once asked Bessler how many frozen waffles it would take to make the wheel turn. After some thought and calculation, he replied 'Eighteen, because the fish don't eat ice cream.'"

I'm still working the numbers, but it seems he may be correct.

A clever man, indeed.

[TommyK]

Has anyone yet considered the Wurzel/Root of Greed to mean a Square Root?

[Stewart]

Here's a link to another interesting German named Otto von Guericke:

http://www.corrosion-doctors.org/Biogra ... ckeBio.htm

He did experiments in static electricity among other things. He also realised that like charges repel. He died in 1686 (when Bessler was six) - so Bessler would probably have known of his work and maybe experimented further. Bessler did have a number of brass spheres in his possesion when he died (click here for inventory).

So Bessler may have used heat, magnetism, static electricity, or gravity as a primary force, with gravity as the secondary force. Are there any others?

PIMAN - You could be right that Bessler, by covering the weights with a handkerchief, didn't want witness to know what the weight was made of. They could feel the shape of the weights and how heavy they were:

Wolff said:
"Whilst he did this, he did not disguise the fact that the mechanism is moved by weights. Several such weights, wrapped in his handkerchief, he let us weigh in our hands to estimate their weight. They were judged to be about four pounds each, and their shape was definitely cylindrical."

Does this mean that to see what the weight was made of would have been too big a clue? John - did anyone ever record what the dimensions of the weights were, or a more accurate measure of their weight? This might allow us to work out what they were made of.

PIMAN - It's an interesting idea that the weights could have been made from different materials. If Bessler did make some weights out of one material and other weights out of another, then he wouldn't want this to be known. He might have used iron and copper - magnetic and none magnetic metals, if he did use magnets in some way as the primary force. He might have used brass, glass, or sulphur, if he used static electricity as the primary force.

Stewart

[John Collins]

Stewart asked

John - did anyone ever record what the dimensions of the weights were, or a more accurate measure of their weight? This might allow us to work out what they were made of.

I've not found any other reference to the actual size and shape of the weights, nor what they were made of. Bessler does suggest that only lead, iron and/or brass were used in his machines.

John C.

[Oxygon]

i dont know but Cannibalism does put humanity back through the eco system

that was a Pessimism joke ala oxygon style :D

... :P

Hey long time no see you guys... been a month or two...

I drop by to see whats going on now and then... not much lately, so I chose not to add anything.

I will be returning soon... in a few days. (mon/tue.approx)

I have had many new ideas that would most likely work, but have yet to put any effort into building them...

(maybe, just maybe I might share) ;P

Maybe I can thow some ripples into the water?...

talk to you guys later...

[Michael]

I want to stress again the composition of the poem and it's meaning into three heiarchal sections. And Bessler's gesture towards this, not only at the beginning of the poem, but in the end where he says everything belongs to ONE of Three kingdoms. And the parellel to mercury, salt, and sulfer. A prologue. A main body, and an epilogue. Also, and most importantly, the main driving force outlined in the first paragraph, the inner workings, and the least important, the outer look, or gross bulk matter. The meanings of the parellel are this.

Mercury, or Divine mercury, is the primary stuff, or energy, of the universe. Another name for it is the aether.

Salt, is the fallen. It can absorb mercury, and it get's it's drive "inspiration" from mercury, but it is also fixed ie. matter. All things have salts.

Sulfer, is the lowest stage, the lowest form of matter (figuratively speaking) and as an analogy that's why it's placed in hell, and relates to lucifer.

Regards,

Michael