Apologia Poetica Translation

[Stewart]

Hi John

It's really exciting to think that Apologia is a treasure map. Can you elaborate more on what makes you now think this is the case. It certainly seems to me that some lines refer to places/buildings. Looking at the first four lines we have:

Greed is an evil root.
An anvil receives many blows.
A driver drives. A runner runs.
A seer sees. The buyer buys.

First of all I just want to talk about the first line. I must just state that I have very little knowledge of the German language, so I may be completely wrong in what I'm saying here - I'm hoping Rainer might be able to help with this. These are just my observations and attempts at translating.

John - in your first book you quote the line as:

Der Geiz ist eine Wurzel bös'

In this topic you have posted:

Der Geiz ist eine Wurzel böߒ

My understanding is ß represents ss.
I've also noticed the use of ' in various words in AP
This seems to replace the letter 'e'
I therefore get böse or böße.
I get 'evil' as a translation for böse, but nothing for böße or bösse.
Anyway, this probably isn't important but I just thought I'd query it.

The word geiz I think more accurately refers to the love of money, as I think the word gier means greed.

So, I think the first line should read:

The love of money is an evil root.

This is very similar to the first few words of Timothy 6:10 in the bible:

"Denn Geiz ist eine Wurzel alles Ãœbels...."(German Luther)

or

"For the love of money is the root of all evil...."(King James)

The line:
"A driver drives" (Ein Fuhrmann fährt)
I think translates better to:
"A carter carts"

So we have:

The love of money is an evil root - (could be the bank?)
An anvil receives many blows. - (could be the blacksmiths?)
A carter carts. - (could be a cart house?)
A runner runs. - (running track?)
A seer sees. - (opticians? or site of a telescope?)
The buyer buys. (shop?)


All the best
Stewart

[Stewart]

Hi Michael

I think you are right about the original section of AP I talked about at the beginning of this topic being just a general description of the wheel. There are a few odd things about it, but it could just be a problem with translation.

What are your current views on the treasure map theory?

All the best
Stewart

[coylo]

So we have:
The love of money is an evil root - (could be the bank?)
An anvil receives many blows. - (could be the blacksmiths?)
A carter carts. - (could be a cart house?)
A runner runs. - (running track?)
A seer sees. - (opticians? or site of a telescope?)
The buyer buys. (shop?)

LOL

Children play among the pillars
with loud heavy clubs. - (those dam kids, its not safe to walk the streets at night anymore)

[Michael]

Also interesting in some the content I am about to send some of you guys, some of it was discussed on this thread before I saw it.

Michael

[Michael]

So we have:
The love of money is an evil root - (could be the bank?)
An anvil receives many blows. - (could be the blacksmiths?)
A carter carts. - (could be a cart house?)
A runner runs. - (running track?)
A seer sees. - (opticians? or site of a telescope?)
The buyer buys. (shop?)

No. It all relates to gravity. The main force. Then the mechanics. Then the outer.

Mike

The love of money is an evil root - (could be the bank?) Roots, draw up away from gravity
An anvil receives many blows. - (could be the blacksmiths?) Force on metal by hammer mainly driven by gravity
A carter carts. - (could be a cart house?) held to the ground by gravity
A runner runs. - (running track?) same as above
A seer sees. - (opticians? or site of a telescope?)
The buyer buys. (shop?) Both by mass weight, one by event, one by material goods.

[Michael]

Hi Stewart,

The treasure map. I really haven't given it more thought. I might not be posting to much in the next while. My own work is suffering and I want to get to it.

Mike

[Tinhead]

Thanks for posting the original, John. Is very interesting.
I had a look into it and started creating some comments. Just a start yet, haven't finished it, quick try if I can attach it as word document.

Harti? You should be able to add some comments too :)

So have a look (if it works) and let me know what you think. Shall I continue this way?

Cheers,

Rainer

[Jonathan]

I think that's interesting, especially the children, acrobats, dog, and knick-knacks. I'm lost as to how to get anything out of the "knick-knacks" verse, I can't even find the word knick-knack. Here is a list of what I get, each row being for a different word:
To/that/the
brighten/clarify/dress-up
estimate/assess/value/reckon
and
machine
white/blank
it
very/much
kind/good/friendly/pleasant/nice
to
serve/attend-to/operate/answer/service/pass/feed/help

[Stewart]

Hi Rainer

Thanks for your comments so far, they are very interesting - please continue! There are more interesting things to follow that I've found that are different to the original translation. I'm not going to post them here as I'm struggling with some words, so I'll wait for your translation. There does seem to be a section at the end which we haven't seen before that mentions the book and talks of "special/specific?" questions, but I'm struggling with transalting it - hopefully it will make sense to you.

John - this reminds me of the first verse from the original translation:

Those who are keen to ask questions
should ask them of this little book.
My deeds will not be revealed prematurely.
Should anyone wish to speculate about the truth,
let him ponder the rich pageant of words
which I now cause to shower down upon him!

Where does this appear as it wasn't included in your post of the German text?

All the best
Stewart

[Michael]

Hi Piman,
I haven't really said to much other than giving a few hints now and then regarding the hidden sciences because I am writting a book on it. I was delighted to see your posting on the tail. The tail means the same thing in all areas. It seems like you might know this in regards to what you posted, but if you don't, think checkerboard.
In a related area I find it amusing that it has been said that in the inner circle of some secret societies they worship satan. It is tradition to test an initiate to see if they really are a man of knowledge, or if they are just faking it. If someone were to hear that they worship satan, and didn't know that satan, shatan, devil (lived backwards) lucifer, etc. were all analogies for what "god" has set up as the king of the universe ie. entropy, they would have the sh*t scared out of them. One who knows of course would think, yeah, I know what your talking about.

Michael

[Michael]

Very good observation Ovyyus by the way.

>Heat is an energy capable of acting through 'locked doors'. Unlike magnetism, heat can perform constant work if constantly supplied. But for heat to be a viable solution to Bessler's problem of finding a primary motive force in order to drive his weights then it had to be freely available and not produced within the wheel through any sort of chemical reaction. That means that if heat was utilised then it had to originate outside the wheel (environmental) and therefore, like a poltergeist, move freely and invisibly through 'locked doors', from the outside to within.



M.O.

P.S. I originally thought of something like that if he was faking it and was using a powerful magnet to supply energy to the moving wheel from another room. But we won't go there.

[John Collins]

Stewart you asked

John - this reminds me of the first verse from the original translation:

Those who are keen to ask questions
should ask them of this little book.
My deeds will not be revealed prematurely.
Should anyone wish to speculate about the truth,
let him ponder the rich pageant of words
which I now cause to shower down upon him!

Where does this appear as it wasn't included in your post of the German text?

It appears a few lines before the text I quoted, but I didn't post it because I could continue to post more and more of the German text and take up bandwidth ete etc. There are approximately seven thousand lines of text and you'll be able to get it all within a couple of weeks when I finish the hard copy version of AP. So hang on and it will all be available - and Das Triumphens too.

John Collins

[Stewart]

Hi John

Following up on the treasure map theory... Have you found any maps of Kassel around the time of publication of Apologia, or even any descriptions of buildings in Kassel? I've only managed to find an 1800 map so far (on the web). Here is a link to it:

http://historic-cities.huji.ac.il/germa ... ssel_b.jpg

Here are a few ideas of how the first part of AP might fit the map going by the references to the left of the map:

The love of money is an evil root - (?)
An anvil receives many blows. - (The Foundery?)
A carter carts. - (The Stable?)
A runner runs. - (Tennis Court?)
A seer sees. - (?)
The buyer buys. (Market?)
The rain flows. - (River or The Falls?)
Snow falls. - (The Falls?)
The rifle fires. - (The Arsenal or The Barracks?)
The bow twangs; - (The Arsenal or The Barracks?)

Other ideas:
The love of money is an evil root - (Bank?)
A seer sees. - (observatory? - I've found references to observatories but I'm not sure where they were)

Another thought I had was whether by drawing lines between these places in order, you might get a diagram/symbol of something. Anyway, I need to do more research and I wondered if you had any info that might help. Thanks.

All the best
Stewart

[Stewart]

Hi John

Just a thought on the following line of AP:

The love of money is an evil root

Is this first line another deliberately misquoted bible reference or another indication that Bessler was using a different bible to the Luther etc?

Timothy 6:10 (German Luther Bible):
Denn Geiz ist eine Wurzel alles Ãœbels....
(The love of money is the root of all evils....)

Bessler:
Der Geiz ist eine Wurzel bös'
(The love of money is an evil root)

I looked through the list of bible references in Apologia (from your book) to see if 1.Tim.6.v.10 was there. It wasn't - but 1.Tim.6.v.12 was there - this being only two verses before. Just a long shot but could this be an indication of an atbash cipher for the bible references - i.e the relevent bible reference is two verses back from the one quoted? I haven't looked into this further yet - I will do when I get more time.

All the best
Stewart

[John Collins]

I liked the map of Kassel Stewart and I'm not aware of another earlier one, although I'm certain that there were earlier ones. Before I continue I should say that I'm not convinced of the treasure map idea although I don't discount it as a possibility. If such a map exists I think it's more likely to be a map of Karlshafen, where he lived or Furstenberg where he began his windmill project. I say this because he left Karl's castle at Kassel around 1729 and went to live a house in Karlshafen provided by Karl.

He designed his own family tomb which he built in the garden of his house at Furstenberg and I have speculated that it is there that he would have left his papers, either hidden within the tomb itself or somewhere nearby, with clues as to their location placed on or in the tomb itself.

In anticipation of your next question I have been to Karlshafen and Furstenberg and all that remains is a tarred carpark where the garden was. The original houses are still there but there is no way of determining whether anything else remains. I have also seen the remains of the windmill and again it is not possible to examine them at this point, but I'm sure that if they were hidden there somone would have discovered them in the intervening years.

Re your second post. You have come across the same problem that I have and that is that we have difficulty in identifying which Bible Bessler used. Invariably the text shows slight variations to the quotation. I've rechecked the verse you quoted 1.Tim.6.v.10, in my updated version of AP and you're right it isn't there.

The "two verses back" idea is reasonable, the trouble is that there are so many possibilities that it would take an expert to make sense of it all. I wondered if the fact that the whole of the Apologia was written in chapters with each chapter numbered in Roman figures, might be a clue and certainly I have tried matching the Biblical chapter references to those on AP and then tried to identify a line from the rest of the reference - totally daunting!

EDIT

I should also point out that the numbering of some verses varies from bible to bible so that your quote above might be the same verse as refered to in AP.

John Collins